Future Dinosaur Concept: Small Carnivore (Deinonychus?)

[Sable]

I'm making this based off my new post-recode speed chart regarding all current in-game species (see thread here)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/1697221160901232806/

Overview

Supposedly, there are eight new additions coming to the game, said to be small animals, consisting of one carnivore and seven herbivores/omnivores. We know very little about them beyond that. Now, in the speed chart I posted, I talked about the three superficial roles for each carnivore in each tier.

Ambush predator (Fast and powerful, but low stamina)
Endurance predator (Slower and less-powerful, with high stamina)
Middle-ground predator (Moderately fast and moderately strong, with decent stamina)

Unofficially (obviously), Herrerasaurus takes the role of the small ambush predator, and Austroraptor takes the role of a middle-ground/semi-aquatic predator, which leaves the last role of an endurance predator open for business. Again, we don't know what species the new carnivore is, but I'm taking a guess at it being a Deinonychus because it's both popular and fits the bill pretty well. For the sake of not having to call it Carnivore X throughout this thread, I'm simply going to refer to it as a Deinonychus.

I've come up with a bit of a rough draft for a design for this carnivore.

Profile

Deinonychus would be a small, persistent pack-hunter that uses endurance and teamwork to survive, roaming vast territories in large packs and able bring down animals many times its size. It would be quite the adaptable predator, thriving in just about any environment, ranging from mountainous woodlands, to flat grassy plains.

Speed and Stamina

The idea behind an endurance predator is that it doesn't kill its prey with sheer strength, but drags out the fight long enough for its victim to become exhausted or bleed to death. This would be true for Deinonychus.

Running at a speed of 41 km/h, it wouldn't be faster than Dryosaurus, Herrerasaurus, or Austroraptor, but what it lacks in speed, it would make up for in stamina, with a pool of 4:45. It'd be able to outlast almost any creature in the game, excluding Gallimimus. An ambush speed of 47 km/h, with a duration of 10s, and a cost of 35 seconds for a single use.

Hunting and Combat

By itself, Deinonychus wouldn't pose much of a threat to anything. It'd be somewhere between the Dryosaurus and Herrerasaurus/Austroraptor in terms of raw strength, and a fight with either of those two carnivores is not likely to end well for it, however, the idea behind Deinonychus is that its strength and viability is multiplied significantly with each member to its pack.

1 is a snack to an Austroraptor. 2 is a nuisance. 3 would be a nightmare. A large pack, 8 or more, could pose a threat to creatures so much larger than themselves, up to the size of a Maiasaura or Ceratosaurus. They would essentially be land-piranhas, attacking in mass frenzies and overwhelming their prey with sheer numbers.

Like their larger cousin, Utahraptor, Deinonychus would have a pouncing ability. However, where the Utahraptor's pounce would deal raw damage while being able to hang on for considerably longer amounts of time, the pounce of the Deinonychus would deal harsh bleed, and it would only be able to stay latched for a few seconds before detaching from their victim. This is to place emphasis on the necessity of needing the pack and their endurance to keep a hunt/fight going until their victim dies of exhaustion and blood loss.

Growth

As mentioned above, Deinonychus by itself, is not much of a threat to anything beyond Dryosaurs and small juveniles, and so, its growth time should reflect this. About 45 minutes, since its power lies between Dryosaurus and Herrerasaurus/Austroraptor, neither of which should take more than an hour to grow.

Resource Drain

60:00 Hunger, 45:00 Thirst

What It Brings To The Game

DiVeRsItY

Just kidding. Beyond filling the role of a small endurance predator, Deinonychus would also entail the small predator main's answer to the larger fauna. Herrerasaurus and Austroraptor, while stronger, wouldn't possess the tools or abilities needed for tackling such large prey. Deinonychus would.

Deinonychus also is an excellent starter carnivore for new players when figuring out what playstyle best suits them before they try to play with a carnivore of higher difficulty. If they find they don't like ambush hunting (Herrerasaurus) or being a middle-ground/semi-aquatic (Austroraptor) then they're likely to find their best suit in the form of an endurance predator. From there, they can then "upgrade" to playing something with a similar playstyle, but on a more difficult level, such as Ceratosaurus, or Giganotosaurus.

Given that it is fairly quick, with a large stamina pool, this also gives players, both new and veteran, something to travel maps quickly. Deinonychus small size and ability to jump would allow it to explore virtually any location on a map, something that is critical given that a newer, larger map is on the way.

[Pablo Croft]

+1

[beebee73]

+1 here from me too! 😀

[Shot'em]

+1, as usual

[Darth Absentis]

I like it, sure it could find its place, but the idea of a 100kg dino taking down 2 ton+ animals just sounds overkill

weirdly, it is one of those cases where the prey that should fit it is not in the game, unless considering pachy, cerato, utah and dilo to be prey, which, something just is not right about that

[Sable]

Originally posted by Darth Absentis:

I like it, sure it could find its place, but the idea of a 100kg dino taking down 2 ton+ animals just sounds overkill

weirdly, it is one of those cases where the prey that should fit it is not in the game, unless considering pachy, cerato, utah and dilo to be prey, which, something just is not right about that

Literally every pack hunter in existence: "are we a joke to you?"

[Madkou]

I'd have to look at the size comparison, 1 memento! ...OK! So, the actual size is not much bigger than a velo, and smaller than an austro. If it were progression, it would hunt taco, oro, velos, and fresh utah juvis that would grow into a match pretty quickly.

If it got the drop on a dilo juvi, or sucho juvi even (after weight isn't such a thing) it might win with superior speed and agility.

I see them scavenging a lot too man, or even hatchling hunting.

Their special ability could be snatching hatchlings in their mouth, and running away with them, as adults man. Just an idea :D

[Kami]

truth be told, i can't see them implementing 8 new creatures into the game that are all smalluns, especially if all but one is apparently a carnivore. herbis need more love right now then carnis do, but even i think thats overkill.

a question, though. when you say its viability and deadly factor would multiple with each new member to its pack, do you mean its actual stats would get better with company or it would just do better? because to be honest, its actual stats getting better feels a little bit too game-y to really fit the isle.

[Madkou]

Let me refine my idea!

I say bring the herrara into survival.

Here's why:

- The model etc is already in the game. Could brush up the sounds, but past that, all gud!

- It would have the fastest ambush speed on the isle. There's a counter-balance for this, later.

- It's running speed would clock around the same as a pachy.

- Average bleed to victims. Not a dilo's bleed, but enough to get the job done.

- A fast sneak speed to help with the tracks it leaves behind after ambushing. So, it can ambush again, successfully.

- Now the counter-balances.

- Poor night vision. We don't want them being a better dilo. This emphasis' daytime hunting, and the fact dilo are their worst enemy in this way.

- Like the dilo, but MORE dependency on stacking bleed (with 3 successful ambushes uncontested). A poor BF. This ensures that a toe to toe is not favourable for the herrera.

- Weakness to bleed. Comparable to a juvi pachy. Again, getting hit also means trouble retreating, and keeping hidden when doing so. Only in the rain would they get away to rest.

Would be a finese fighter, and not easy. Often a scavenger.

What would make herrera's unique? Their ambush speed, but more importantly, their ability to (bodydrag) live hatchlings, and possibly eggs if they do more with nesting.

Whatcha think OP? =D

Originally posted by Zoinks but spooky:

truth be told, i can't see them implementing 8 new creatures into the game that are all smalluns, especially if all but one is apparently a carnivore. herbis need more love right now then carnis do, but even i think thats overkill.

a question, though. when you say its viability and deadly factor would multiple with each new member to its pack, do you mean its actual stats would get better with company or it would just do better? because to be honest, its actual stats getting better feels a little bit too game-y to really fit the isle.

Herbies really do need more attention. They need the next COOL thing. Sadly, though, when it comes down it it, herbies fall last on everyone's list for things to get better...Just look at the "Unbearable Periods" thread. No one thinks this current period is bad bc of how the herbie faction is being treated. Just outdated stuff that happened a long time ago.

[Sable]

Originally posted by Zoinks but spooky:

truth be told, i can't see them implementing 8 new creatures into the game that are all smalluns, especially if all but one is apparently a carnivore. herbis need more love right now then carnis do, but even i think thats overkill.

a question, though. when you say its viability and deadly factor would multiple with each new member to its pack, do you mean its actual stats would get better with company or it would just do better? because to be honest, its actual stats getting better feels a little bit too game-y to really fit the isle.

Do better. Nothing about stats would change. Consider the viability of the Carnotaurus or Dilophosaurus when hunting bigger animals.

Alone, obviously, Carnotaurus or Dilophosaurus doesn't do that great. With a partner, still not so effective. Then you add a third one and all of a sudden they're an actually serious threat. Add a couple more and you have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cancerous nightmare.

Deinonychus would be like that in terms of the threat it poses increasing with the size of the pack. Their downside is they're fragile as ♥♥♥♥. Like I said, 1v1 Deinonychus vs a Herrerasaurus or Austroraptor, Deinonychus is gonna get ♥♥♥♥ on.



Madkou, couple things I'd like to point out.

Every single dinosaur gets a remodel before they're implemented into Survival. Herrerasaurus is likely to get the same treatment.

Being an ambush predator with a weak bite and high bleed doesn't mix. By nature's default, ambush predators are fast and strong af, but they have asthma, so they suck at distance and endurance hunting. They kill their prey quickly.

Endurance predators aren't really that fast compared to ambush predators, nor are they as strong when of similar size. But they make up for this by usually working in a pack and using their endurance to drag a hunt or fight out until the victim keels over.

Now, if you want a bleeder Herrerasaurus, you have to sacrifice the extreme ambush speed for greater stamina. It wouldn't have both, which is what you're basically proposing when you want it to be both a bleeder and an ambusher. If you're proposing to make it a middle-ground predator, then you would have to sacrifice both speed and stamina, which when slapped onto a weak predator with a weak bite, is just a terrible formula. A middle-ground predator would be decently strong, decently fast, and have decent stamina. Not a bleeder nor an ambusher. It wouldn't get the best of both worlds, just a little good from both.

Secondly, you have to wonder where you fit Austroraptor if you make Herrerasaurus into a middle-ground small carnivore. We can actually afford to have Austroraptor be the middle-ground between endurance and ambusher because it's also a semiaquatic. It has an entire element that it outclasses either carnivore role in. Yet, Austroraptor still wouldn't be the best semiaquatic either.

So it makes more sense for Austroraptor to be the middle-ground, and leave us with bleeder (endurance) and ambusher (power/speed).

We already have diurnal bleeders and a nocturnal bleeder, as well as diurnal ambushers. But what we do not have is a nocturnal ambusher, which is where I'd like Herrerasaurus to fit into.

[Nearchus]

It'd work, but only with the unique abilities mentioned, like being about to pounce and have a small enough hit box to avoid those unfortunate nom-noms from basically anything. If all of these weren't implemented along with the little booger, we'd have a velo that eats protein powder. Anyway, it's a neat idea

[Madkou]

Off-topic

The assassin/thief of the isle (on a small guy scale). 1 shot kill + body drag all in one motion. Performed on the smallest of prey, hatchlings, eggs, and maybe utah juvis. It could also cart away small gore too!

I picture the herrera doing this!

[Sable]

Originally posted by Madkou:

Off-topic

The assassin/thief of the isle (on a small guy scale). 1 shot kill + body drag all in one motion. Performed on the smallest of prey, hatchlings, eggs, and maybe utah juvis. It could also cart away small gore too!

I picture the herrera doing this!

Body dragging is something going to all carnivores, but yes, that would encompass the small ambush predator, which is a design I made for Herrerasaurus. Heavily edited since then. At one point, I wanted it to be arboreal, but I feel like that's generally a useless mechanic for a carnivore.

Egg consumption is likely coming with the arrival of omnivores (oviraptorosaurs), so lets leave egg-thievery to them :)



My design for it:

Role/Niche: Small nocturnal ambush predator

Sprint Speed: 45
Stamina: 1:30
Ambush Speed: 55
Ambush Duration: 7s

Key Traits: Nocturnal (Night vision range would be half of Dilophosaurus'), Ambush Pounce (a one shot pounce to Gallimimus and smaller. Wouldn't work on a Utah, Pachy, or Dilo. Can only be used while Ambush Meter is active) Great jump and minimal fall damage to be adapted to forest and mountain habitat. Using ambush is also super costly on stamina, so it really only gets one chance to make the kill

Growth Time: 1 hour

Resource Drain: 1 hour

Combat: Can't fight Gallimimus or fully grown apex juvenile, gets ♥♥♥♥♥♥ on in a straight up brawl but can kill both with its pounce. Utahraptor and Dilophosaurus would make it call them daddy. Basically, it can fight things its size, like Austroraptor, but loses to anything significantly bigger.


That's the barebones of my design for Herrera. I could go into more detail, but truth be told, I'm kinda lazy about it.

[Kami]

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

Originally posted by Zoinks but spooky:

truth be told, i can't see them implementing 8 new creatures into the game that are all smalluns, especially if all but one is apparently a carnivore. herbis need more love right now then carnis do, but even i think thats overkill.

a question, though. when you say its viability and deadly factor would multiple with each new member to its pack, do you mean its actual stats would get better with company or it would just do better? because to be honest, its actual stats getting better feels a little bit too game-y to really fit the isle.

Do better. Nothing about stats would change. Consider the viability of the Carnotaurus or Dilophosaurus when hunting bigger animals.

Alone, obviously, Carnotaurus or Dilophosaurus doesn't do that great. With a partner, still not so effective. Then you add a third one and all of a sudden they're an actually serious threat. Add a couple more and you have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cancerous nightmare.

Deinonychus would be like that in terms of the threat it poses increasing with the size of the pack. Their downside is they're fragile as ♥♥♥♥. Like I said, 1v1 Deinonychus vs a Herrerasaurus or Austroraptor, Deinonychus is gonna get ♥♥♥♥ on.



Madkou, couple things I'd like to point out.

Every single dinosaur gets a remodel before they're implemented into Survival. Herrerasaurus is likely to get the same treatment.

Being an ambush predator with a weak bite and high bleed doesn't mix. By nature's default, ambush predators are fast and strong af, but they have asthma, so they suck at distance and endurance hunting. They kill their prey quickly.

Endurance predators aren't really that fast compared to ambush predators, nor are they as strong when of similar size. But they make up for this by usually working in a pack and using their endurance to drag a hunt or fight out until the victim keels over.

Now, if you want a bleeder Herrerasaurus, you have to sacrifice the extreme ambush speed for greater stamina. It wouldn't have both, which is what you're basically proposing when you want it to be both a bleeder and an ambusher. If you're proposing to make it a middle-ground predator, then you would have to sacrifice both speed and stamina, which when slapped onto a weak predator with a weak bite, is just a terrible formula. A middle-ground predator would be decently strong, decently fast, and have decent stamina. Not a bleeder nor an ambusher. It wouldn't get the best of both worlds, just a little good from both.

Secondly, you have to wonder where you fit Austroraptor if you make Herrerasaurus into a middle-ground small carnivore. We can actually afford to have Austroraptor be the middle-ground between endurance and ambusher because it's also a semiaquatic. It has an entire element that it outclasses either carnivore role in. Yet, Austroraptor still wouldn't be the best semiaquatic either.

So it makes more sense for Austroraptor to be the middle-ground, and leave us with bleeder (endurance) and ambusher (power/speed).

We already have diurnal bleeders and a nocturnal bleeder, as well as diurnal ambushers. But what we do not have is a nocturnal ambusher, which is where I'd like Herrerasaurus to fit into.

To be honest, we don't really have nocturnal anything really. Yes, we have Dilo, but it's the only nocturnal dinosaur, and it doesn't even have a very good NV range. (its only good in comparison to what we have now)

I definitely feel like this would work, but I also feel a dinosaur that's less mainstream would work with the 3 types kind of setup. How well do you think swapping Herra to an endurance hunter and using something like a small tyrannosaur for the ambush hunter would work? Or keeping Herra as an ambush hunter and also implementing some sort of small tyrannosaur as a slower but more powerful ambush hunter? Or perhaps a middle ground that does lean slightly more towards ambush?

[Fettpatrone]

Originally posted by Madkou:

Let me refine my idea!

I say bring the herrara into survival.

Here's why:

- The model etc is already in the game. Could brush up the sounds, but past that, all gud!

- It would have the fastest ambush speed on the isle. There's a counter-balance for this, later.

- It's running speed would clock around the same as a pachy.

- Average bleed to victims. Not a dilo's bleed, but enough to get the job done.

- A fast sneak speed to help with the tracks it leaves behind after ambushing. So, it can ambush again, successfully.

- Now the counter-balances.

- Poor night vision. We don't want them being a better dilo. This emphasis' daytime hunting, and the fact dilo are their worst enemy in this way.

- Like the dilo, but MORE dependency on stacking bleed (with 3 successful ambushes uncontested). A poor BF. This ensures that a toe to toe is not favourable for the herrera.

- Weakness to bleed. Comparable to a juvi pachy. Again, getting hit also means trouble retreating, and keeping hidden when doing so. Only in the rain would they get away to rest.

Would be a finese fighter, and not easy. Often a scavenger.

What would make herrera's unique? Their ambush speed, but more importantly, their ability to (bodydrag) live hatchlings, and possibly eggs if they do more with nesting.

Whatcha think OP? =D

ive heard that herra is going to be added to surival as a creature that can climb trees up although those are rumors so take it with a pinch of salt although the idea of that sounds quite neat

[Kami]

Originally posted by tyyrimees:

Originally posted by Madkou:

Let me refine my idea!

I say bring the herrara into survival.

Here's why:

- The model etc is already in the game. Could brush up the sounds, but past that, all gud!

- It would have the fastest ambush speed on the isle. There's a counter-balance for this, later.

- It's running speed would clock around the same as a pachy.

- Average bleed to victims. Not a dilo's bleed, but enough to get the job done.

- A fast sneak speed to help with the tracks it leaves behind after ambushing. So, it can ambush again, successfully.

- Now the counter-balances.

- Poor night vision. We don't want them being a better dilo. This emphasis' daytime hunting, and the fact dilo are their worst enemy in this way.

- Like the dilo, but MORE dependency on stacking bleed (with 3 successful ambushes uncontested). A poor BF. This ensures that a toe to toe is not favourable for the herrera.

- Weakness to bleed. Comparable to a juvi pachy. Again, getting hit also means trouble retreating, and keeping hidden when doing so. Only in the rain would they get away to rest.

Would be a finese fighter, and not easy. Often a scavenger.

What would make herrera's unique? Their ambush speed, but more importantly, their ability to (bodydrag) live hatchlings, and possibly eggs if they do more with nesting.

Whatcha think OP? =D

ive heard that herra is going to be added to surival as a creature that can climb trees up although those are rumors so take it with a pinch of salt although the idea of that sounds quite neat

That was Ninjas concept, I don't think it's actually getting officially added. If that's how Herra is being added that is pretty cool.