Theri and Survival

[Jerr]

Hey, everyone! I talked to a dev about Theri being added to survival, and he told me no, most likely it won´t. I would love if it was added to survival because it could have some really unique abilities. It also has 3 different attacks which are unique enough IMO. It has the 3 swipe attack, the sprint attack, and a right-claw attack. Here are some abilities I thought of:

Theri could be able to eat from Trees, as it should anyways...
Theri could get the ability to have excellent bleed resistance because it was feathered? Idk...
Or, Theri could get the ability to eat from both Trees and Bushes. In case bushes were out, it could eat from trees, this gives it an advantage over other herbivores.

Anyways, it´d be a nice addition to Survival considering that it is basically a glass cannon. It can hold its own against anything but Rexes. Unless you get behind the Rex and rear ride it. If you don´t have a laggy pc and are skilled at alt-turning, you can indeed kill a Spino.

[Prey]

Well, that's really disappointing. Theri has almost always been unique and fun to play. Hopefully they change their minds.

Anyway +1 to the OP.

[Sargon The Grape]

I had assumed Theri was going to be the playable tree-browser (since sauropods won’t be playable), but I guess I was mistaken. Hopefully the developers change their minds, because it’s a pretty unique-looking dinosaur.

[Telsker Sonpos]

I never was a big herbivore player, but Theri was the only one I really enjoyed to play in sandbox, and later in progression.
It was the only one that interested me because of how unique it looks (big ass claws !), sounds (Nazgûl !), and attacks (3 attacks, all useful).

And while people say that Theri is a glass cannon, I must disagree with that statment.
It's a big dinosaur, and it sure doesn't have a big HP pool. However, its attacks are still too weak to be a real glass canon, and it doesn't do any bleed, even with the biggest claws ever.

So tbh, even if Theri was added to survival, it will need a huge damage boost to be viable and capable to fend off the pretty common apexes, or at least not be a free kill and make them think twice before attacking.

Now, what would make it even more unique to be added to survival?
Eating from trees is a good idea, but idk if that's enough.

[Flyingdrull]

Originally posted by ToxOS:

I never was a big herbivore player, but Theri was the only one I really enjoyed to play in sandbox, and later in progression.
It was the only one that interested me because of how unique it looks (big ass claws !), sounds (Nazgûl !), and attacks (3 attacks, all useful).

And while people say that Theri is a glass cannon, I must disagree with that statment.
It's a big dinosaur, and it sure doesn't have a big HP pool. However, its attacks are still too weak to be a real glass canon, and it doesn't do any bleed, even with the biggest claws ever.

So tbh, even if Theri was added to survival, it will need a huge damage boost to be viable and capable to fend off the pretty common apexes, or at least not be a free kill and make them think twice before attacking.

Now, what would make it even more unique to be added to survival?
Eating from trees is a good idea, but idk if that's enough.

Well the tree thing could work because all the cerato is going to have is the ability is able to eat bones from corpses. The only problem is that...well....a while ago the stego had an animation that made seem like it ate trees as it would stand on its hind legs and eat leaves but that was just an old animation and might not matter anymore.

The only other ability I could think of would if it had some boost coming with nesting which is kind of dumb but it still can work.

[Fried_potato]

I dont really see anything fun about being able to eat from trees and bushes. You need a interesting mechanic for it to have a chance at survival.

[Telsker Sonpos]

What about that:
The direct damage of the Theri is augmented by the total of HP it has lost.
For example, if a Theri fights a pred and lose 40% of his HP, then its direct damage will have a +40% buff.
Meaning that the closer it gets to death, more powerful are his attacks.
This mechanic combined with decent bleeding will make it a true glass canon.

[Jagore]

but its ok because to totally unique and interesting Maia is coming.

[Jerr]

I mean, Theris atacks are unique itself lol. Anyways, if Theri got bleed, its damage would probaly get nerfed. I'd rather Theri have no bleed because if it did get bleed, it wouldn't really hurt apexes since they can heal 100 bleed. Theris damage is fine atm, this is coming from someone who mains Theri and knows how to one-shot Albertos with it. :) Since Gigas are now faster, Theri can't win against one. A Giga would just bleed it out basically. The only way you would win is if the Giga tries to facetank you like an idiot. There is also a way to get apexes on 2nd phase (medium red screen) with one attack. You have to let it run towards you, then sprint towards it and suddenly stop using your run attack. Then use the 3 swipe immediately after. I asked the dev why Theri won't come to surval and he said because less top tier herbivores are needed, and more prey. While I agree with this, I hope it comes in the future.

[Funky Kong]

The Theri is my most fav herbie in the game, cause again, it looks friggin unique and is just something else than the other herbies.

There are some points in which he could stand out:

First off his survivability:
He could eat from trees and bushes, is a fast herbie and idk if Heatwaves or Snow is gonna be a thing but the Theri would be resistant to extreme weathers since he has feathers covering and protecting his whole body. Here would be just a idea how the snow would influence the dinos, the cold would drain the stamina more quickly and the regen would also be very slow.

Now to his combat:
The Theri could be one of the dinos which could kinda turn on point since he has a very bipedal like body. (I hope you get what i mean)
The arms are very powerfull so he could have a swipe attack which would cost much stamina but it could stun bigger dinos and it would send small dinos flying.

[Jerr]

Yeah, it's unique already tbh. A weather resistance ability wouldn't really be unique becaue some dinos will be getting feathers in the future. Also, it already has a powerful swipe attack.

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by Fried_potato69:

I dont really see anything fun about being able to eat from trees and bushes. You need a interesting mechanic for it to have a chance at survival.

Maia. Cerato.
Now that your point has been made irrelevent...

Theri would be unique, given it is a fast and very powerful creature. Eating from trees is just as special as Ceratosaurus, and someone mentioned a very neat idea, doing more damage based on how much health it has lost. If a Rex runs in and chomps it, the Theri would be able to retaliate. Now, i imagine that when walking, it would be very slow but turn on itself allowing it tobe a very dangerous prey item. Ill suited to take the offensive, given it would be slower than things like Utah, Allo, Giga ans Carno, it would however be the hardest herbivore to attack given it would be extremely deadly and be able to stand its ground.

[Jerr]

Yeah, I agree. It has a good run turn that can be used to counter Rexes who missed an instant bone-break bite.

[PeasantKyr]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Maia. Cerato.
Now that your point has been made irrelevent...

Maias ability and playstyle has not even been announced. Neither has paras ability, since people keep comparing the two. Like trike and pachyrhino, there will be both a size variance and abilities that make them different from each other.

Dondi has been talking about ceratos intended place in the game since the thing was put in progression, calling it a "stocky little hunter" and corpse bully. He has been talking about giving it damage buffs and a possible size increase, saying it will be able to contest a carno over a kill.

All of that, plus marrow eating, makes me think that cerato will be some sort of hyena analog. He is not the biggest bully on the block, not like rex, but that size makes him perfect for squeezing every bit of value out of a meal, again not like rex.

Look at carno. Extra damage based on velocity is a mechanic, but it's not a playstyle changing mechanic. The thing that gives carno its playstyle, that of a nomadic hunter capable of travelling to wherever the food is, is its stats.
The mechanic just makes carno better at what it already does: hit and run tactics utilizing its very high speed and stamina.

Ceratos ability to get more value from a corpse will do something similar, once it gets the stats that it needs to make that playstyle viable.

Tribals will use bones as building materials, which makes for an interesting interaction dynamic for cerato as well. Who gets to the bones first? Who can steal them from the other before they get used and therefore become useless?

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Theri would be unique, given it is a fast and very powerful creature. Eating from trees is just as special as Ceratosaurus, and someone mentioned a very neat idea, doing more damage based on how much health it has lost. If a Rex runs in and chomps it, the Theri would be able to retaliate. Now, i imagine that when walking, it would be very slow but turn on itself allowing it tobe a very dangerous prey item. Ill suited to take the offensive, given it would be slower than things like Utah, Allo, Giga ans Carno, it would however be the hardest herbivore to attack given it would be extremely deadly and be able to stand its ground.

Eating from trees will not be unique as long as the diet system is still planned, and even if it isn't, finding a different plant to eat from will never be as interesting as sneaking bones away after another predator seemingly, hopefully, has left the area. It literally just boils down to a different thing to hold the eating button on.

The increase to damage based on damage taken, however, is very interesting. I like it, but it does have some issues.

Mostly, I don't think it fits the idea of a "glass cannon" ability, as people describe theri as, because with a smaller health pool you won't get very long to take advantage of such a damage increase.
That said, I'm not entirely married to the idea of theri being a glass cannon in the first place. It never really made sense to me for an animal to be like that. With some extra health (not neccessarily more weight, but definitely health) theri could have a bit more wiggle room for that sort of ability to work.

The biggest issue for theri being viable, in combat terms only, would be locational damage. There is no realistic way for that neck to be anything but a one shot for either a rex or a giga.
If that is indeed the case, then it would need to be able to escape both of them, as well as any predator of similar size.
Make it adept at fighting medium sized hunters, like allo and carno, that aren't as likely to clamp down on the giant sausage on your front end.

[Why Watt]

@Kyre -
Ceratosaurus fighting tribals for bones just puts it t a disadvantage, because while it normally would lack the stealth to threaten Tribal players, or any reason to contest with them, it is now a rather slow, large target that fights them for ressources...
Interesting dynamic, sure, but that is the exact one you do not want to have with Tribals or any humans for that matter. Utahs and Carnos will be those that Mercs and Tribals put the most effort into culling, because they are a threat, being fast and deadly.
Contesting Carnotaurus, a frail nomadic hunter, is not something to write home about. Most medium sized theropods do that already.

We don't know Maias ability yet, or Paras for that matter, but that doesnt make them unique. They are both of similar size, and are hadrosaurs, and have to run from most fights. So you can't really say they are logical additions.

Carnotaurus' mechanic is fine and dandy, but if it can't ambush it is a pointless ability, just buff its damage output and thats the end of it, because it will always be sprinting when attacking anyways.

As for Theri, yeah I agree that it being a glass cannon has always seemed strange, it shouldn't be one any more than Rex or Giga. But, as an interesting ability, to truly make it a berserker, not only would it do more damage the more health it has lost, but perhaps attackers end up with feathers in their mouth? So, in a one-on-one with an Apex carnivore, at first it is on the losing end, but then the Theri is doing more damage and the specific foe is doing less.
Therefore, to hunt a Theri, you want to pack up and be smart. If you go in and try to throwdown one-on-one, you will likely die to it. But, if you go in, get damage and get out, and have your packmate that isnt hindered by a bunch of moldy sloth-feathers it can finish it off.

Obviously, locational damage goes both ways. If Theri strikes a Rex in the face, it has more reach and will outright kill it. So while the neck may be a tempting target, tackling one from the front would be suicidal.

[Velociraptor]

Originally posted by Kyre:

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Maia. Cerato.
Now that your point has been made irrelevent...

Maias ability and playstyle has not even been announced. Neither has paras ability, since people keep comparing the two. Like trike and pachyrhino, there will be both a size variance and abilities that make them different from each other.

Dondi has been talking about ceratos intended place in the game since the thing was put in progression, calling it a "stocky little hunter" and corpse bully. He has been talking about giving it damage buffs and a possible size increase, saying it will be able to contest a carno over a kill.

All of that, plus marrow eating, makes me think that cerato will be some sort of hyena analog. He is not the biggest bully on the block, not like rex, but that size makes him perfect for squeezing every bit of value out of a meal, again not like rex.

Look at carno. Extra damage based on velocity is a mechanic, but it's not a playstyle changing mechanic. The thing that gives carno its playstyle, that of a nomadic hunter capable of travelling to wherever the food is, is its stats.
The mechanic just makes carno better at what it already does: hit and run tactics utilizing its very high speed and stamina.

Ceratos ability to get more value from a corpse will do something similar, once it gets the stats that it needs to make that playstyle viable.

Tribals will use bones as building materials, which makes for an interesting interaction dynamic for cerato as well. Who gets to the bones first? Who can steal them from the other before they get used and therefore become useless?

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Theri would be unique, given it is a fast and very powerful creature. Eating from trees is just as special as Ceratosaurus, and someone mentioned a very neat idea, doing more damage based on how much health it has lost. If a Rex runs in and chomps it, the Theri would be able to retaliate. Now, i imagine that when walking, it would be very slow but turn on itself allowing it tobe a very dangerous prey item. Ill suited to take the offensive, given it would be slower than things like Utah, Allo, Giga ans Carno, it would however be the hardest herbivore to attack given it would be extremely deadly and be able to stand its ground.

Eating from trees will not be unique as long as the diet system is still planned, and even if it isn't, finding a different plant to eat from will never be as interesting as sneaking bones away after another predator seemingly, hopefully, has left the area. It literally just boils down to a different thing to hold the eating button on.

The increase to damage based on damage taken, however, is very interesting. I like it, but it does have some issues.

Mostly, I don't think it fits the idea of a "glass cannon" ability, as people describe theri as, because with a smaller health pool you won't get very long to take advantage of such a damage increase.
That said, I'm not entirely married to the idea of theri being a glass cannon in the first place. It never really made sense to me for an animal to be like that. With some extra health (not neccessarily more weight, but definitely health) theri could have a bit more wiggle room for that sort of ability to work.

The biggest issue for theri being viable, in combat terms only, would be locational damage. There is no realistic way for that neck to be anything but a one shot for either a rex or a giga.
If that is indeed the case, then it would need to be able to escape both of them, as well as any predator of similar size.
Make it adept at fighting medium sized hunters, like allo and carno, that aren't as likely to clamp down on the giant sausage on your front end.

then what if that tree could be rare and could used to build stuff as a tribal? like a tree with thorns