The Assassin of The Isle

[Sable]

Current Herrerasaurus Stats:

• Health: 500
  
• Weight: 500kg
  
• Stamina: 2 Minutes, 10 Seconds
  
• Speed: 55.8 kmh
  
• Jump Height: 0.8 meters (approx.)
  
• Jump Cost: N/A
  
• Ambush Speed: 61.3
  
• Ambush Time: 15 seconds
  
• Ambush Cost: N/A
  
• Ambush Charge Up Time: 4 seconds
  
• Bite Force Damage: 50 * Herrera Weight / Target Weight
  
• Bleed: 10 * Herrera Weight / Target Weight
  
• Hunger: N/A
  
• Thirst: N/A

The Assassin of The Isle

Based off an idea that was once floated around a while ago by the devs, that was to make Herrera able to climb trees. I want to take this a few steps further, and make Herrera into something a little more advanced and unique.


Arboreal Mechanics:

For Herrera's main perk, I feel it should be more than just "climb tree." As an arboreal creature, Herrera should be able to rest in the safety of the branches, as well as use the trees for traveling so long as the canopy supports it. However, the majority of its hunting, along with eating, drinking, and nesting, must all be done on the ground, as to influence interaction with other creatures and prevent invulnerability.


Speed And Stamina:

I want to start by nerfing the speed down to 46 kmh. That's a nerf of 9 km of speed from what it currently has, and instead, make its current speed of 55 kmh its Ambush Speed. The stamina should be nerfed to 1 minute 30 seconds and the Ambush Time dropped down to 10 seconds. The Ambush should take 5 seconds to charge and cost 3 seconds of stamina for 1 second of Ambush, so one Ambush use costs 30 seconds, and leaves Herrera with 1 minute of stamina left. The total number of times Herrera would be able to use an Ambush is 3 before it has to regen stamina.

What would be the result of these changes? Herrera is still able to outrun almost all predators, with the exclusion of Carno or an Ambushing Utah. An Ambushing Dilo also has a chance of catching a Herrera. With a stamina pool lower than that of all its main prey and predators, Herrera is not a long-distance runner. Escape lies in the branches of the trees. Even a Dryo would be able to escape a Herrera if they can manage to evade its initial pounce.


Jump And Fall Damage:

I'd like to buff the jump and decrease the fall damage. Herrera should be able to jump 2 meters into the air (approx the same as Austro), and take much less fall damage. As an aboreal predator, it should be adapted for surviving high falls, at least as well as Utah does. The jump I think should cost 5 stamina. Jumping is how I imagine Herrera would do most of its arboreal travel. Costing stamina would hinder it from travelling through the trees indefinitely, and should only be used to escape predators or achieve a position for an Ambush.


Size, HP, And Damage:

I want to buff all three of these stats. Nothing overboard, but just enough for what I have in mind for Herrera. Size and HP should be buffed to 700. Currently, at 500kg, Herrera is smaller than a Dryo, which is at 700kg itself. Bite force Damage should be increased to 100. Even with these buffs, Herrera is still no match for anything larger than itself in a head-to-head brawl. That is where I'd like to introduce the second mechanic. Herrera's very own pounce. (continued below).


The Assassin's Pounce:

This pounce would be Herrera's best, and for some prey, its only method for successfully making a kill. The pounce would carry an extra damage buff of 150, and the pounce itself can ONLY be achieved while the Ambush meter is active, whether Herrera is stalking on the ground, or dropping from a tree. Herrera would only be able to use this Pounce on creatures up to the size of a Pachy, and no larger than that. To prove that this would encourage stealth and precision, and to disprove any thoughts of this being overpowered, here are the calculations made using the damage formula. I will use the Galli and the Pachy has my two examples, as they would be the prey most likely to be pounced. The Galli's weight is 1000, Pachy is 1300, and this Herrera would be 700. The Pounce Damage is 150.

Herrera Pounce Damage to a Galli:
150 * (700 / 1000) = 105
So while latching, Herrera would need to bite the Galli 10 times to kill it, which would be enough time for the Galli to have a decent chance of bucking it off.

Herrera Pounce Damage to a Pachy:
150 * (700 / 1300) = 80.8 (Let's just round it up to 81)
So Herrera would need to bite Pachy 17 times while latching to make the kill, which is definitely enough time for Pachy to have a shot at bucking it off.

Now, as for why the Pounce is necessary for Herrera, let's take a look at what would happen if the Herrera misses the Pounce, and tries to instead, brawl with either the Galli, or the Pachy.

Galli damage to this Herrera:
150 * (1000 / 700) = 214
Galli can kill Herrera in 4 kicks, and with Galli's attack speed, Herrera is dead in 2 seconds.

Now for the Pachy:
350 * (1300 / 700) = 650
Pachy would 2 shot a Herrera. Just one headbutt would leave Herrera with only 50 of its 700 health left.

The Pounce requires stealth and precision to pull off. Having considerably low bite force, with even lower bleed, means Herrera cannot use brute strength, or use hit-n-run tactics effectively. If the Herrera misses, its retreat or die. There is very little hope for a second attempt since the target is now aware of its presence, and it is not easy to sneak up on an alert Galli.

What Would Be This Assassin's Prey?

No risk prey:

• Juvie Low-Tiers
  
• Dryo

Low-risk prey:

• Juvie Mid-Tier

Medium-risk prey:

• Juvie Apex

High-risk prey:

• Galli
  
• Pachy

The Ideal Habitat

By day, this predator usually remains in the safety of the dense jungles and forests, resting in the high canopies. By nightfall, the Herrera ventures into more open spaces to hunt, though it doesn't stray too far from the trees. The more foilage in its environment, the better for the elusive assassin.


Night Vision:

Being a stealthy, precise predator, I strongly believe that Herrera should get an upgraded night vision. Allow me to make clear that I do NOT want Herrera to be Dilo 2.0. Juvie Dilo's NV range should be just enough for Herrera. It should be able to rely on the cover of darkness, but still be FAR from the master of the night that is the Dilo. A benefit from this is there is more interaction for both predators. Sharing a mutual time in which they are both more active can spice up the night cycle both for each other, and for their prey.


What Does The Assassin Have To Fear?

This Herrera would fear any carnivore larger than itself, however it must especially watch out for Carnos that are easily faster than it, packs of Utahs that are almost as fast, and have much more stamina, and finally, the superior nocturnal hunter which stalks the same dark forests, the Dilo.

The Herrera should also be wary of larger herbivores, especially while attempting to hunt their young.


Growth Time:

As the weakest and smallest carnivore, the equivalant of the Dryo in terms of its Tier, the Herrera should have the lowest growth time out of all its carnivorous brethren. However, being more lethal, and overall stronger than the Dryo, the Herrera should still take a little more time to grow than its herbivorous counterpart. The Dryo takes about 30 minutes, so I think that 45 minutes would be a fair growth time for the Herrera, considering its size as well as its relationship to the Dryo.


Why This Herrera Is A Loner, And Not A Pack Hunter:

Stealth and precision. Those two things are what this Herrera would be all about. A pack would create a false sense of security. The size of the prey is only big enough for one Herrera to pounce at a time, unlike the massive fauna that the Utah will be pouncing. A pack would feel no need to be stealthy, and would likely be more careless. Carelessness in the Isle, usually results in death. While a pack could maybe bring down a Pachy, it would do so by brawling, and a brawl, as stated before, ends poorly for the Herrera. There would be casualties, and unneccesary ones at that.


Why This Herrera Will Be More Unique Than Other Carnivores:

This Herrera would be more unique for all the reasons stated above. The Isle currently does not have a predator that would behave like this. Utahs will roam in large packs, and latch onto large mega-herbivores and Apexes. The Dilo is a predator that hits-n-runs, allowing prey to bleed out. The Carno is a pursuit hunter, and also employs the same tactics as the Dilo. Allos will grapple and wrestle their prey to a halt. Cerato will be a bully and can brawl with anything in its Tier or lower. The Herrera is not a pack hunter, nor will it be able to effectively hit-n-run with its low bleed. Reduced speed and low stamina, and a costly Ambush hinders long-distance pursuits. Small health pool means it cannot just throw down with an opponent. This Herrera is the Assassin of the Isle. Stealth and precision are it's greatest, and most effective weapons.


Final Stats Review:

• Health: 700
  
• Weight: 700kg
  
• Stamina: 1 minute 30 seconds
  
• Speed: 46 kmh
  
• Jump Height: 2 Meters
  
• Jump Cost: 5 Stamina
  
• Ambush Speed: 55 kmh
  
• Ambush Time: 10 seconds
  
• Ambush Cost: 3 seconds of Stamina per 1 second of Ambush
  
• Ambush Charge: 5 seconds to charge an Ambush
  
• Bite Force Damage: 100 * Herrera Weight / Target Weight
  
• Pounce Damage: 150 * Herrera Weight / Target Weight
  
• Bleed: 10 * Herrera Weight / Target Weight
  
• Hunger: 30 minutes
  
• Thirst: 30 minutes

Summary:

A small, agile predator that relies heavily on stealth and precision to make a kill. The slightest error can end in failure or even death. It can use the cover of darkness, or the dense foliage to conceal itself. When in danger, it has a refuge amongst the branches of the trees, but has little hope of outrunning or outstamming its predators on the ground. It cannot do much in the way of combat, but can be very lethal with the element of surprise.

Concerns:

This section is to address some of the concerns I read by people who replied.

1. "you can just watch the herra hop around in the trees and wait for it to climb down for an easy snack."

A) It's no different from waiting for a Dryo to exit a burrow, or a Sucho to exit water. Besides, that just makes it all the more fun. Herrera better make sure it's safe before it climbs down. Plus, who even looks up at the trees? :)

2. "While the whole tree climbing idea looks nice it has one big problem though:
-lack of interaction"

A) I respectfully disagree. Just as with Dryos and burrows, and Suchos and water, they have to come out at some point. The trees are only a mini high-way and safe haven. Herrera still has to come down for most of its hunting, and to eat, drink, and nest.

3. "this might require a remodeling of the Herrera because our current Herrera is designed for speed and stealth, not taking to the trees."

A) Many of the dinos are getting a remodel, and Herrera is rumored to be among them. Slightly more robust arms and possibly shorter legs would make it look more like an ideal climber's body.

4. "Secondly, larger packs of Herreras could camp edible bushes that are in forest, and eventually, that would start to♥♥♥♥♥♥people off"

A) Any carnivore can camp bushes. The way I'm envisioning Herrera is to make it a loner, not a pack hunter. A pack would make it harder to be stealthy, and since Herrera would have far less stamina as compared to it's prey and predators, it'll want to be alone and have a low profile. Herbivores will be getting a reworked food system as well, so it won't just be one type of bush.

Your Opinion

So what do you guys think? I did my absolute best to make this Herrera with stats and mechanics that would be appropiate for the role I want it to have in the ecosystem. I played our current Herrera against current Survival dinos. I did my damnedest to find accurate info, and make sure that it would be viable without being overpowered, as well as ensure that it plays uniquely compared to the other carnivores.

I know that it's a long shot for the devs to put Herrera into Survival, and even longer one to put Herrera in with these mechanics and stats, but my hope is that they'll see this and think its good enough to take up the effort of creating it. I know they've built some dinos based on ideas from the community before, and I really hope this can be one of them in the future.

[Sable]

I have made a few edits to (hopefully) better explain the ideas.

[SkBonez]

I like the 2nd idea a lot. Building it with the idea that it wouldn’t do as well in open areas seems fine, make it rely more on the trees by day and come out of the forest a bit at night maybe. The devs do seem to be building some areas and dinos with the intention of good and bad matchups, suchos need to be near water, large dinos don’t do as well as little ones in the denser parts of the forest, etc. I love the idea of being a small tier dino or human, having to use the cover offered by the forest to survive, and constantly being on watch for a herrera mid pounce from the trees.

[Chad Thundercock]

Not to sure why so many people want herra to be a tree climber, the idea in itself is flawed because you can just watch the herra hop around in the trees and wait for it to climb down for an easy snack.

[Elena]

I like Herrera-Cheetah (fast, stealthy and well travels on the map).
Want a bit more stamina or a bit higher the speed its recovery.

Climbing trees-this mechanics should be left for another dinosaur.

(translate.yandex) о.О

[Sable]

Originally posted by Elena:

I like Herrera-Cheetah (fast, stealthy and well travels on the map).
Want a bit more stamina or a bit higher the speed its recovery.

Climbing trees-this mechanics should be left for another dinosaur.

(translate.yandex) о.О

Which dinosaur would be suited for an arboreal lifestyle, in your opinion? There are not many that could take the to the trees. Austro is a swimmer, Dryo is already a digger. The other small creatures won't be intended to be playable.

If Velo was ever playable, that is the one dino I think could be modified for a life in the branches. Unfortunately, small = AI.

[SkBonez]

The only issue i see with it being an extremely fast predator that hunts small tier prey is that the devs have already said that’s what the Carnotaurus is for, so I can’t help but feel that would make herrera feel like a smaller, weaker carno. I would very much like to see it get something else to help make it feel unique, like tree climbing or mimicry.

[Elena]

"Ninja_Weasel"

Interesting is the size of the creature that will no longer be considered AI (This will reduce the search time).

If possible, you can simply not look for an analogue of some once existing species and just create a new kind of dinosaur (come up with the appearance and abilities... the only limitation in fantasy and available resources).

(translate.yandex) о.О

[Frost Spectre]

My hope is that instead of unique "Snatch-n-Dash", is that "killing bite" will always result in auto-grab for prey item if the weight difference is high enough.

Idea 1 would be rather basic.
Idea 2 is interesting. Tho requires redesign of forests, probably construction of canopies.

[Sable]

Originally posted by SkBonez:

The only issue i see with it being an extremely fast predator that hunts small tier prey is that the devs have already said that’s what the Carnotaurus is for, so I can’t help but feel that would make herrera feel like a smaller, weaker carno. I would very much like to see it get something else to help make it feel unique, like tree climbing or mimicry.

It is what Carno is for, but Carno is kind of terrible for chasing the small, flighty prey like Galli and Dryo. They're just far too agile for Carno. I find Carno has better luck catching a Maia or a Dibble, despite those being tougher opponents. I've yet to bag a Dryo or a Galli with a Carno, or get caught as a Dryo or Galli by a Carno. They are the masters of juking in Survival.

Originally posted by Frost Spectre:

My hope is that instead of unique "Snatch-n-Dash", is that "killing bite" will always result in auto-grab for prey item if the weight difference is high enough.

Idea 1 would be rather basic.
Idea 2 is interesting. Tho requires redesign of forests, probably construction of canopies.

There are areas of the map that already have a decent canopy. The jungles around swamps, canyons, and Large Port have large trees that have long, thick branches that reach into those of the surrounding trees.

Idea 1 is basic, I agree, but it works extremely well. Though, I am very curious to test the experience of Idea 2. It would have a more unique playstyle as compared to the rest of the carnivore faction.

[Sable]

I made a few revisions to what the stats of a Leopard-Herrera should be like, after playing around with our current Herrera and testing it against the current predators and herbivores of Survival.

I changed my opinions to suggest less of a speed and stamina reduction, but a greater reduction in Ambush time.

Changes to original post:

1. Suggestion of reducing speed from 55 kmh to 45 kmh changed to a reduction of 55 kmh to 48 kmh

2. Suggestion of reducing stamina from 2 minutes and 10 seconds to 1 minute and 30 seconds changed to reduction to 1 minute and 40 seconds

3. Suggestion of reducing Ambush Time by 25% changed to reduction by 30%

Reasoning being that Leopard-Herrera will still be weaker than any predator larger than itself, and would need to be fast to escape. 48 kmh is still slower than an Ambushing Utah and Carno sprint, so it would not be invulnerable to ambushing predators.

Stamina should be enough to travel and escape immediate danger, but is still not enough to outstam Carno or Utah.

Herrera currently has the longest lasting Ambush, and negates the need for stealth as it provides a large window of opportunity to run down prey. Leopard-Herrera is intended to be more a swift, stealth predator rather than a swift, endurance hunter.


I have yet to see how current Herrera does against Pachy and Galli, and will update again once I have the information.

[rustyOkin]

As someone who'd love to see Herrera (one of my favourites) in survival I'd say Idea 2 is obviously much more interesting and unique and as far as I know there were some ideas floating around where Herra could actually climb trees already. I think some artwork was shown somewhere once...

While the whole tree climbing idea looks nice it has one big problem though:
-lack of interaction

When the devs introduced burrows it seemed like a cool feature but what ended up happening is that people were just camping them and sort of abusing the fact that there was no second escape route. This was pretty much the only way to "interact" with this mechanic and it was kinda dumb.

The difference is that burrows in the future can be changed to work more like tunnels or connected systems with multiple entrances/exits. In addition some smaller carnivores could enter the burrows (I think juvie Utahs can do that already?)
Herrera would be the perfect dinosaur to fill the role of a borrow invader.

Trees on the other hand don't really allow this kind of interaction unless another dinosaur can also climb them which kinda removes the uniqueness of climbing.
Also there isn't really another way to escape once you are getting camped while trapped on top of a tree - unless Herrera is also able to jump from tree to tree which would be a bit silly if you ask me (and a lot of work for the devs to animate for a mediocre mechanic at best...)

Also tree climbing is planned for Mutants, so it's their sort of thing I believe...

The thing is Herrera is already unique and interesting because of its playstyle. It's the prime example of an oportunistic hunter/scavenger. It'd rather see this playstyle being encouraged and enforced!
-slightly better nightvision is a good idea
-the only adult Carnivore able to invade burrows
-small size allowing it to lose predators in dense vegetation without relying on insane speed
-master of stealth because of small size

My personal ideas are "Grizzly" and the "Egg-stealer" which could be used on other dinosaurs as well!

Grizzly:
-Grizzly-dinosaurs are decent swimmers though not as good as aquatic creatures like Austro, Sucho,...
-They can't dive (which I assume aquatic dinos will be able to) but they can still catch fish at the surface

Egg-stealer:
-scent highlights nests and eggs (maybe even hatchlings?) significantly and allows you to grab an egg to carry it away

Make the Herrera a full on oportunist who uses all kinds of little tricks and feats to find food, hunt and hide

[Sable]

Originally posted by Rusty:

As someone who'd love to see Herrera (one of my favourites) in survival I'd say Idea 2 is obviously much more interesting and unique and as far as I know there were some ideas floating around where Herra could actually climb trees already. I think some artwork was shown somewhere once...

While the whole tree climbing idea looks nice it has one big problem though:
-lack of interaction

When the devs introduced burrows it seemed like a cool feature but what ended up happening is that people were just camping them and sort of abusing the fact that there was no second escape route. This was pretty much the only way to "interact" with this mechanic and it was kinda dumb.

The difference is that burrows in the future can be changed to work more like tunnels or connected systems with multiple entrances/exits. In addition some smaller carnivores could enter the burrows (I think juvie Utahs can do that already?)
Herrera would be the perfect dinosaur to fill the role of a borrow invader.

Trees on the other hand don't really allow this kind of interaction unless another dinosaur can also climb them which kinda removes the uniqueness of climbing.
Also there isn't really another way to escape once you are getting camped while trapped on top of a tree - unless Herrera is also able to jump from tree to tree which would be a bit silly if you ask me (and a lot of work for the devs to animate for a mediocre mechanic at best...)

Also tree climbing is planned for Mutants, so it's their sort of thing I believe...

The thing is Herrera is already unique and interesting because of its playstyle. It's the prime example of an oportunistic hunter/scavenger. It'd rather see this playstyle being encouraged and enforced!
-slightly better nightvision is a good idea
-the only adult Carnivore able to invade burrows
-small size allowing it to lose predators in dense vegetation without relying on insane speed
-master of stealth because of small size

My personal ideas are "Grizzly" and the "Egg-stealer" which could be used on other dinosaurs as well!

Grizzly:
-Grizzly-dinosaurs are decent swimmers though not as good as aquatic creatures like Austro, Sucho,...
-They can't dive (which I assume aquatic dinos will be able to) but they can still catch fish at the surface

Egg-stealer:
-scent highlights nests and eggs (maybe even hatchlings?) significantly and allows you to grab an egg to carry it away

Make the Herrera a full on oportunist who uses all kinds of little tricks and feats to find food, hunt and hide

Would you say its appropiate to add your ideas of a full-on opportunist to Idea One in the original post?

This would then make Herrera less of a specialist, and more of a generalist and jack-of-all trades sort of predator. I like your points, and I think it could merge well with Idea One.

[rustyOkin]

yes and no
I think Herrera doesn't necessairly need hyper speed to survive and it shouldn't be a dinosaur that lives in open space, being stronger is debatable
Herra worked on old v3 AND new v2 back then. Utah and Carno (didn't have the bad turn radius back then either) were both faster than it yet Herra was quite viable if you knew what you were doing!

Remember that the biggest advantage you can have in The Isle is being that small. It doesn't really matter how much more powerful or faster something is if you manage to avoid it completely. Neither Utah nor Dilo can really fill this role since they are just too damn big.

Herreras way of escaping should be running into the forest where it becomes insanely difficult to follow/find it. Hanging around in the open and just be real fast is kinda boring if you ask me.

On the other hand it shouldn't just play like an inferior version of Utah & Dilo. This is why it should have some neat little survival advantages like the ones mentioned - its most important one remains its size though and this is what Herreras should play around

[Sable]

Originally posted by Rusty:

yes and no
I think Herrera doesn't necessairly need hyper speed to survive and it shouldn't be a dinosaur that lives in open space, being stronger is debatable
Herra worked on old v3 AND new v2 back then. Utah and Carno (didn't have the bad turn radius back then either) were both faster than it yet Herra was quite viable if you knew what you were doing!

Remember that the biggest advantage you can have in The Isle is being that small. It doesn't really matter how much more powerful or faster something is if you manage to avoid it completely. Neither Utah nor Dilo can really fill this role since they are just too damn big.

Herreras way of escaping should be running into the forest where it becomes insanely difficult to follow/find it. Hanging around in the open and just be real fast is kinda boring if you ask me.

On the other hand it shouldn't just play like an inferior version of Utah & Dilo. This is why it should have some neat little survival advantages like the ones mentioned - its most important one remains its size though and this is what Herreras should play around

I agree with using the forest as cover, but I also feel that the woods should be Herrera's retreat during the day, and it should take to more open environments at night for two reasons. One being that hanging out in a forest at night is really raising the risk of death from Dilos.

The second reason is that most other creatures, including potential prey, will also not likely be found in a forest at night for the same reason.

Small is a huge advantage. I don't disagree with that at all. Playing Herrera, be it injected into a Survival game, or Minimal Rules Sandbox, I find that Herrera's size plays hugely into how close I can get to an unsuspecting baby dino being guarded by a large pack or herd. But the speed is the other big part that plays into whether or not I successfully kill my target AND escape its angry caretakers.

[DCephas27]

Tree climbing and out right speed contradict one another from a physiological perspective.