[official server] Group size

[Rinzler]

I did not see any topic about the size of the groups on the official servers. I wanted to know what you think of that. Looking at some streamers I saw groups of 5 adult tyrannosaurs or groups of 20 dilos. For most of these streamers they find it too high. For a dinosaur who wants to play solo it's so unbalanced. For a gigantic solo against 5 T-rex adults is death, for an allo face 20 dilo it's death too. This is even nobody usually use Discord (again a benefit). I like playing in groups with strangers but I also like to play solo, but facing these unfavorable rules the desire to play fades for me.
I found a server with rules about the size of groups that I think is more suited to the game in the state.

1. Allosaurus: 4
2. Carnotaurus: 4
3. Ceratosaurus: 5
4. Dilophosaurus: 5
5. Giganotosaurus: 2
6. Suchomimus: 3
7. Tyrannosaurus: 2
8. Utahraptor: 8

In any case, I find this limit much more fair for solo player compared to that of the official server.

[Pablo Croft]

it could be as simple as restricting nesting to survival (which is aimed at being closer to realism than the other modes, I assume.) Grouping could be applied to sandbox servers without rules, and so I don't get flamed, I am speaking of official servers. Put your guns away.

Some simplified ideas:

a) Code for nesting. This would limit families (groups of mercs, because let's face it, they aren't procreating to group lol) to a set number, and said female player who laid the eggs cannot lay any more for a fixed time. When the kids grow to adult they are auto-removed from the group. Time to make your own family.

Full nest system message would change depending on what faction you are.

**Colors pasted on by both parents would be great, but may limit people to a look that they don't want...so that's another topic for another discussion.**

The number of eggs can vary from dinosaur to dinosaur. It's up to the creator of the game to have a system of balancing family size out for each species of dinosaur. In survival mode, I would keep the idea of starting as an orphaned juvi (you had to come from somewhere lol).

As a side note, mothers staying on a nest during the process becoming vulnerable is a keeper! The male must defend them in this vulnerable time. This also creates a counter balance to too many nests. If the mother gets up at any time during the process of creating eggs, they are lost! A timer for both parents to make another egg should be in effect here, as well.

Aww, da babas so cute!


b) Code for grouping in sandbox mode. Same idea, you'd get a message saying this group is full. Even on a server without rules, there would probably be a need for limits here. It would resemble the same number of adults allowed in a "family." Even players who are there to just PEW PEW would eventually get upset and feel things could become unbalanced without some kind of imposed group regulation.

In order to help moderators with this, a number could be auto-assigned by code to families, and groups in both modes. This would help moderators CLEARLY tell when players are still acting as a family, or group- skirting the rules. Not perfect, but to a diligent moderator, certainly helpful.

Again, only taking about official servers, getting rid of mixed anything in "survival mode" might be an idea as well. Another way to help moderators observe the behaviours of players- grouping them in a more simple matter.

This also caters to realism. I know, some of you think (as I do in some cases) that herbivores herded with other herbivores to survive, and they may have, but I have a counter idea: Herbivores, Carnivores, Humans, it doesn't matter when you consider the instinctive distrust we have for anyone, outside of our trusted family (or friends, but let's keep it simple) or group.

As a human being, if the world ended, how many other human strangers would you trust? Animals in the wild think the very same way. If it's a bear helping a bird not drawn while looking for fish in a pond, it's only because that bird isn't a threat. It's not the end of the world, but we are on an isle fighting for our lives, and it amounts to the same thing lol.

So, no mixed "anything" can still cater to realism. At least for the survival mode. In sandbox, anything can go? It's why it's called sandbox, and not hardcore realism survival mode lol.

This is just off the top of my head, and if they want more AE's gotta pay me xD

I like your numbers, and I think our ideas would mesh fairly well, in theory. In practice? Testing, testing, and more testing! lol, there's tons to consider: Player skill, latency at the time (its crazy unstable right now!) players not working together well, like biting one another when attacking, or not knowing when to attack, or not being able to maneuver an enemies backside so the other player can strike, etc, etc.

One question for you, were moderators present in those videos, and were they playing along?

My 2 cents.

[Rinzler]

Generally admin of official server play with "popular" streamer . 20 dilos or allos and 5 apex minimum and use discord...

[Pablo Croft]

They were being very hypo-critical there.

On a serious note, that could have had some serious backlash. I don't remember if they took the responsible route and announced the changes to the servers rules that day, or not? I hope so. A place for that should have been the message of the day screen before you start.

They likely had a "We'll spring it on our players event type thing, and they'll love it" approach. The 20 dilos thing, that doesn't make sense, and should have got them in trouble.

[Voyager]

I used to be pure official server player, and I can tell that ammount of unfair scenarios in there is beyond any level of rationality. 95% players are carnivores and half of them are Apexes in big groups, wiping out everything they can catch.
Non Apex players are usualy Allos in big packs, so good luck if you want to play as any herbivore...basicaly at this moment official servers should be called " no fun allowed ".

Semi-realism servers got their own problems but body down rule and smaller group limits helps survive as herbivore by A LOT.

[Pablo Croft]

Sadly, I am on the official servers because they don't allow mix-packing, and they don't micro-manage every step you take like most player servers do. Yeah, I wish they would pose a limit on ALL packs, herds.

They aren't likely to update the rules (even though it's fairly simple to do so) so I'm just waiting for the update to do this. I can only assume they are taking in all the feedback we are offering, and will see that mid-level pack/herd management is needed.

Rex/Giga/Trike group size: 4-5 (incl subs). This is the current setup. So, 1 or 2 parent(s) (currently) plus any kiddies. So, in the end this means you can have 4-5 adult apex groups?


Let's consider this:

For every 1 apex, how many raptors would it take to comfortably take down a rex? How many dilos? How many allos, or certas? Carnos? (If I missed a mid-lvl pred let me know)

Now, let's consider the herbivores. How many maias? How many paras? How many pachys? etc. Now, multiplay that number by 4, or 5.

Now that's out of the way, let's talk about the slightly larger mid-level predators like lone certa, and allo, and how many "smaller mid-levels" it would take to kill them, the dilos, and raptors. That number is very different, but creates massive imbalance when a lone certa faces a pack ready for an apex, no? Do we have special rules for these encounters to make sure they are not imbalanced?

This "could" simply mean that we don't need to consider the mid-level predator food chain, because everything is measured to the apexes, and those groups of mid-level dinosaurs end up being properly matched if things are balanced all the way down?

I guess we'd have to see the numbers first?

*Head spinning!* Player skill, latency, pack organization, all play key factors in any fight, imbalanced or not. So, things can go a lot of different ways. Like 1 rex, VS many inexperienced/lacking in judgement dilo players.

I challenge anyone to come up with "all" these pack limits, and not just for apexes. Not just for carnivores. The number from the OP are a good start! Something to reference.

**The stego will help even the odds "some" in survival mode, but herbivores still need the dinos like anki, stego, shant, etc. Everything found in sandbox. This way either side has equal threat- as long asthe packs/herds have limits.**

This challenge does not include sandbox dinos, of course. Maybe we can submit this to the devs, and save them some work if it looks good to them for the current game?

[Człowiek Woda]

You forgot herbivores

[Pablo Croft]

I did actually elude to this (didn't get into it more because the post was getting long):

"I challenge anyone to come up with "all" these pack limits, and not just for apexes. Not just for carnivores. The number from the OP are a good start! Something to reference."

You are correct, the list needs to also contain, and consider how herbivore on herbivore match up, as well. Not just herbivore on carnivore, to help regulate herd counts as well.

1 thing I didn't mention is the number of packs/herds present. That wouldn't be an issue, because they wouldn't be working together anyways, and if they were, they would be cheating. They should be eliminating each other. Too many apex packs would get boring, IMO.

Controlling herds and packs still doesn't solve the everyone playing an apex problem right now, but pack/herd control would certainly help in the future, having players know that there are limits.

EDIT: I also want to mention the numbering system for groups, so moderators can see them better while policing. I'll make a thread about that in the future, if this idea gets support.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

I think group numbers are fine the way they are. Apexes just have too much, except trike, I think trike could have a little more.

[Rinzler]

Originally posted by Krona:

I think group numbers are fine the way they are. Apexes just have too much, except trike, I think trike could have a little more.

On official server the actual limit of pack of dilo, allo, cera ect... it's 20 per groups. So it's 20% of players in a game of 100 players. to my eyes it's really too much...


On the official servers yes you can have 5 adult Apex in the same group.

My requirements are not the same as everyone else. I search realism in all games (war game, war plane game, combat game, sport game, race game ect ...). I can also have a good time on mario bros, but for a car game I prefer a game like assetto corsa or forza horizon (MMORPG) with realistic driving. Rather than a need for speed or other arcade game ... So for the isle I'm not a fan of the mixpacking (especially for carnivores) as much as some herbivores tolerate I conceive, but they allied themselves is something else.

I think some predators are untouchable or only in certain circumstances. I almost compare dinosaurs to wildlife that can be found in Africa today. A lyon will never attack an adult alpha elephant, just as a hyena will never attack an adult lyon. Generally they attack weak and defenseless prey. A lyon alone can stuff a buffalo (with a consequent risk) but not an adult elephant. So for me this should be reflected in the isle, a raptor or even a raptor group should not confront a tyrannosaur. However, if the tyrannosaur is badly wounded after a titanic fight, it could be possible for the raptors to defeat him. Like a tyrannosaur should not take a big male triceratops prey especially if it is in a group, it should focus on the small or on a less strong and isolated prey. The wildlife in the isle is rich so why take the risk of dying seeking to fight harder than is even? The interest of such a fight is because we have no choice (no more prey or babys to feed urgently). I often play alone as Allo, well I'm not trying to kill an adult tyrannosaur or a full grow sub adult, it's the same for adult triceratops, giga, spino, sucho, ect ... I try my luck elsewhere. I think you should not compare the isle to pubg by wanting to kill everyone. this is not my goal in the island.
For me lyon hunt young buffalo, leopard kills gazelle, hyenne hunts wildebeest. Of course hunting for each of these predators is much more complex.

[Pablo Croft]

The large number of mid-lvl groups is a direct result of too many apexes. I'm not real sure the devs will do much with the current pre-update setup. if there is still a lot of time left before it comes, then maybe they will listen if it's done for them by the community? Gotta rally people to it. I can start the wheel rolling, if someone doesn't.

[Rinzler]

Originally posted by Chip-A-Saur:

The large number of mid-lvl groups is a direct result of too many apexes. I'm not real sure the devs will do much with the current pre-update setup. if there is still a lot of time left before it comes, then maybe they will listen if it's done for them by the community? Gotta rally people to it. I can start the wheel rolling, if someone doesn't.

i'm agree and with a fair group size limit for every dino not only apex, the survavibility of a solo player will be increased.
Just like the packaging mix. For some herbivores it goes but for others it's just ridiculous. See herbivores go hunting carnivore, but it's the world upside down ...
Personally I do not fill myself because I always use the same species of dinos. I manage to get out of a lot of situations and I manage to lead the hard life to some sub adult rex allo. But the size of the bands and the mix mix kills the realism a little bit and my gaming experience.

[COL PRIME TIME]

How bout you go play your bs "roleplay" servers and leave our official servers alone, K?

[Rinzler]

What does he say winnie the bear cub???