Deinosuchus shouldn't be in the game or just not playable.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

I won't bring up the paleontological part about how deinosuchus is an invalid genus, since this is the game with mutant dinosaurs, humans fighting against dinosaurs, and cannibalistic humanoid creatures that worship some random AI Machine with strange powers. But gameplay wise, deinosuchus would be bad for you to play and for others playing.


Let's start up with it's gimmick, which is unlimited growth, this isn't that bad(?) but it might just be lame and devalue hypos and strains by a lot, deinosuchus statwise is gonna make hypos have a run for their money, it's going to be insanely fast and have around 100% stealth hiding in the water source you're going near and be about as powerful as a hypo. But I got some problems with it, namely how this animal is supposed to be played.


This playstyle isn't that bad, but the two things that grind my gears is the fact that in the t.rex scenario, at least you can potentially SEE the rex, or actually fight it. Or even better, the rex might not be there, since that's a wide area to camp, so you are more likely to be safe considering how big the map is, and rex's speed and stamina really makes it impossible to chase with impunity.


Deinosuchus on the other hand has 100% stealth if it can dive and be underwater, or remain literally invisible if the water is murky, and if it ambushes you, unless you were a good and big length away and you were a gallimimus or dryo, then you could probably get away, but the rest of the cast, I don't know, it's absolutely insane how fast this thing can go, and based of the early play footage I saw of it, it's stamina doesn't burn out that quick as it seems, plus this could be the animal that trike or any apex for that matter could keep at bay, or be completely defenseless to it. The problem with this is that deinosuchus is gonna BE the bush simulator, go look at real life crocodiles, they don't live the most eventful lives, that's one reason why in saurian that the crocodylopmorphs won't be playable, since you'd spend most of your life basking and doing absolutely nothing.


The main problem I have with it is that THIS animal rivals hypos at a certain point, Hyperendocrine animals are supposed to be SPECIAL, and they are, they have huge regeneration, power, durability, speed, all at the cost of a very demanding stomach. These are huge and absolutely insane animals that are supposed to be VERY VERY hard and rare to get and the devs probably won't tell us when we can become them and how.

Though deinosuchus just makes this seem stupid. Deinosuchus is going to be a playable animal with infinite growth, hypos are gonna have a complex, hard to come by, and likely RNG based system to acquire one. Deinosuchus? Oh just select it on the playable screen. Done, on your way to a strain animal you worked so hard for.


Also, deinosuchus will play in a very noticeable place. It will play in big bodies of water and such, but this is a no brainer, it's a no duh, deinosuchus will incentivize players to simply just not go near big bodies of water unless they literally need too. Just go near the hundreds of small creeks and ponds in the map, especially when there is no draw back.


I haven't even gotten to the point of how it takes up space for other animals, like spinosaurus, having 3 different animals that have a focus on water is not very fun and overall, very hard to make.
With all of this, I think at the very least deinosuchus shouldn't be playable, or heck, not even in the game.


TL;DR, Deinosuchus will be unfun to play against, and unfun to play as, it will be campy and in a way that encourages it and has a obnoxiously easy time camping, but it will all fall short when players realize they can go to another water source that won't have a deinosuchus.

[D.Va]

I don't agree. Sucho for instants is going to be one of deinos is prey and spino. The unlimited growth seems smart to have a survival creature that can take down hypos when they need water. All of this seems like a way to stop hypos from killing half of the server.

[Puppet Pal Clem]

Thing is herbs camp all day and do nothing so i dont see a problem with deino, and then the players who want to go to other water sources, will all come into contact with each other (including carnivors), so now when you go to a small pond, you might see a pack of rexes more commonly since they are afraid of water dinos.

This is good because now players will see each other more often and the game won't feel so dead. I have suggested making the map a bit smaller (tons of people agree) but the devs wants this game to be all about land, air, and sea and thats ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome! Maybe give humans a crappy little raft or tiny boat, and then see a giant deino come up and swallow the entire raft of humans on it bringing them down to the sea floor to devour. Bubbles float to the top and when the bubbles pop you hear human screams.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by The Camarasaurus:

I don't agree. Sucho for instants is going to be one of deinos is prey and spino. The unlimited growth seems smart to have a survival creature that can take down hypos when they need water. All of this seems like a way to stop hypos from killing half of the server.

Sucho is going to operate near small streams, so it has zero reason to go near big bodies of water that deino lives in, and spinosaurus will be an oceanic predator, so it will probably not encounter deino, and it could just go to said small streams to drink, they aren't really that hard to find, plus the hypos can literally just do the same and go near small streams and drink from them.

[Sable]

Well first off, the amount of time it would take to reach a size for Deino to actually be able to take on a Hypo would be so f**king long that you'll die of starvation before you get anywhere near that size. You would need a near constant supply of food to fuel that growth, and that's not likely to happen. Second, Hypos will be countered by a Magna Rex and whatever super weapon the mercs have available to them, so "being special" is really invalid.

Any carnivore has the potential to be completely unseen until its too late. This is in no way, makes Deino any more or any less unbeatable or unescapable. Most creatures can't escape a charging Rex with Ambush at close range, which is pretty much how it's going to be with Deino. And this is why you pay attention to your surroundings, and investigate before proceeding to venture into an area. Every carnivore has a different playstyle, and nearly all of them will be required to move around a lot. Considering how often some of the creatures need to drink, saying that it just sits around doing nothing couldn't be more wrong.

Deinosuchus is not finished, and based off a response I got from a dev not even a week ago, it still has a lot of work needed. Whatever we saw on that video showing off its run animation, is not the finished product. It won't be a land predator, and it sure as hell isn't going to be chasing down anything out of the water.

The three different aquatics will all occupy a different territory with only one thing in common:

Water.

The Spino will be a hunter of the open oceans, going for bigger fish than it would find in freshwater, possibly sharks and the giant sawfish.

The Sucho lays claim to more shallow waters, such as rivers, ponds, and smaller swamps.

The Deino will dominate the larger lakes.

Anything that tries to avoid going to the big lakes in favor of the smaller ones, carnivores will be waiting there no matter what. There's only so many choices. Go to a small river where there are Suchos and other large predators that can actually pursue you over land, or go to the giant lakes where the crocodile gasses out after 10-15 seconds of running.

Looking at the new main map being made, there really isn't as many ponds or rivers as there is on V3. Options are limited, and as I just said, there will be carnivores no matter where you go.

As for only Apex-Tier creatures being able to fend it off, the Deino IS an Apex predator. It's no different from Mid-Tiers being fodder for Rexes or Gigas. If you want to take one out, you do it while its young and vulnerable.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by Pipe Dream:

Thing is herbs camp all day and do nothing so i dont see a problem with deino, and then the players who want to go to other water sources, will all come into contact with each other (including carnivors), so now when you go to a small pond, you might see a pack of rexes more commonly since they are afraid of water dinos.

This is good because now players will see each other more often and the game won't feel so dead. I have suggested making the map a bit smaller (tons of people agree) but the devs wants this game to be all about land, air, and sea and thats ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome! Maybe give humans a crappy little raft or tiny boat, and then see a giant deino come up and swallow the entire raft of humans on it bringing them down to the sea floor to devour. Bubbles float to the top and when the bubbles pop you hear human screams.

You can combat rexes much more easily though, plus that will just lead to people to avoiding deino, you haven't even seen why this is bad, since it will just cause them to starve to death and have no food, since AI will probably not be enough, plus the map is HUGE! There is hundreds of small water sources and most animals can out run rexes, herbivores can camp cause they aren't that oppressive and most carnivores can simply run away from them or fight them.

[Powerferret]

Deino will most likely be able to eat fish and bodies underwater, so it should be able to survive on ai for a while till it starts getting huge. In regards to the hypo-easymode, its been stated that the normal growth will be comparable to a rex, and the wxtra growth wont kick in till after 48 hrs of looged in, in game play. So, assuming you can dedicate 8 hrs a day to this, it will still take almost a full week to even start growing again. Yes it will be campy, but there have been birdbath enthusiasts since the beggining of this game. Imagine if you will, this scenario: a herd moves by a lake and very cautiously checks for crocs. The deino is smart and stays hidden for a long time until the herd is comfortable, subsiding on fish. When something large goes for a drink, bam, giant torpedo, the herd panics, everyone runs, but that one unlucky victim. The deino now has a big meal, and can wait that long time for another herd or individual to stumble by. Yes it sucks for that one person, but thats the type of thing that gets remembered and talked about later. Its also not much different than, say, an allo hiding in the trees camping a lake now. On ambush, if youre too close, theres not much a lot of things can do about it either.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

Well first off, the amount of time it would take to reach a size for Deino to actually be able to take on a Hypo would be so f**king long that you'll die of starvation before you get anywhere near that size. You would need a near constant supply of food to fuel that growth, and that's not likely to happen. Second, Hypos will be countered by a Magna Rex and whatever super weapon the mercs have available to them, so "being special" is really invalid.

Any carnivore has the potential to be completely unseen until its too late. This is in no way, makes Deino any more or any less unbeatable or unescapable. Most creatures can't escape a charging Rex with Ambush at close range, which is pretty much how it's going to be with Deino. And this is why you pay attention to your surroundings, and investigate before proceeding to venture into an area. Every carnivore has a different playstyle, and nearly all of them will be required to move around a lot. Considering how often some of the creatures need to drink, saying that it just sits around doing nothing couldn't be more wrong.

Deinosuchus is not finished, and based off a response I got from a dev not even a week ago, it still has a lot of work needed. Whatever we saw on that video showing off its run animation, is not the finished product. It won't be a land predator, and it sure as hell isn't going to be chasing down anything out of the water.

The three different aquatics will all occupy a different territory with only one thing in common:

Water.

The Spino will be a hunter of the open oceans, going for bigger fish than it would find in freshwater, possibly sharks and the giant sawfish.

The Sucho lays claim to more shallow waters, such as rivers, ponds, and smaller swamps.

The Deino will dominate the larger lakes.

Anything that tries to avoid going to the big lakes in favor of the smaller ones, carnivores will be waiting there no matter what. There's only so many choices. Go to a small river where there are Suchos and other large predators that can actually pursue you over land, or go to the giant lakes where the crocodile gasses out after 10-15 seconds of running.

Looking at the new main map being made, there really isn't as many ponds or rivers as there is on V3. Options are limited, and as I just said, there will be carnivores no matter where you go.

As for only Apex-Tier creatures being able to fend it off, the Deino IS an Apex predator. It's no different from Mid-Tiers being fodder for Rexes or Gigas. If you want to take one out, you do it while its young and vulnerable.

People will still probably try to work around deinosuchus, plus I don't care about time to reach it's full size, it's still dumb that the person that reached that point simply clicked on it, it starves out once it reaches hypo sizes more or less, not apex sizes, and herbivores will at least have a much more understandable and player dependent match than against a deinosuchus. Since a diablo can see a rex or a giga, but trike pretty much can't do anything to deino.

You really can't know a deino is coming, it will swim underwater which makes most hopes of seeing it coming impossible, so unless the deinosuchus is an idiot and comes out of the water to chase once it sees a herd in the treeline.

You can camp with any animal, but I don't think an animal's playstyle should be ONLY CAMP. That's just lame to play.

Mercs will have a ridiculously hard time finding a rifle and ammo for it. So the guns and such are understandably also as hard to get as a hypo, and magnas are said to have a small chance of beating a hypo, but magnas are much more playable since they are the perfect "all rounder".

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by powerferret:

Deino will most likely be able to eat fish and bodies underwater, so it should be able to survive on ai for a while till it starts getting huge. In regards to the hypo-easymode, its been stated that the normal growth will be comparable to a rex, and the wxtra growth wont kick in till after 48 hrs of looged in, in game play. So, assuming you can dedicate 8 hrs a day to this, it will still take almost a full week to even start growing again. Yes it will be campy, but there have been birdbath enthusiasts since the beggining of this game. Imagine if you will, this scenario: a herd moves by a lake and very cautiously checks for crocs. The deino is smart and stays hidden for a long time until the herd is comfortable, subsiding on fish. When something large goes for a drink, bam, giant torpedo, the herd panics, everyone runs, but that one unlucky victim. The deino now has a big meal, and can wait that long time for another herd or individual to stumble by. Yes it sucks for that one person, but thats the type of thing that gets remembered and talked about later. Its also not much different than, say, an allo hiding in the trees camping a lake now. On ambush, if youre too close, theres not much a lot of things can do about it either.

It's still a built in "sit in a bush" simulator, it won't be fun to play even if some people have been campy in this game, and most carnivores can at least be beaten, say an allo hears a diablo coming, he ambushes it as he's been camping near a lake, but he runs into a herd, now he's mega screwed unless he can get away, and he very well could've died, camping shouldn't be a strategy in a game like The Isle, the maps are huge and sprawling. People will just go to different water sources that won't have a deino in them, simple as that, no matter how little or how hard they are to come by in the new map.

[Sable]

On the contrary, I think there should be a few animals that specialize in sticking in one place. All the aquatics will be sticking in one area in general, since Sucho has no real reason to move around from one little stretch of river unless an Apex rolls around. Spino has the freedom to move around, since the oceans are huge and it can travel to other islands, but it has no reason to.

If someone doesn't like how one animal plays, they don't have to play it. I wouldn't mind at all just hanging out as a croc in one lake until something rolls by. And considering that most people probably don't want to lose their Deino to Infinite Growth / Imminent starvation, myself included. I won't grow past sub-adult for that reason.

Plus, considering how territorial Apexes can be, it won't be as if there's a sudden flood of Deinos all rising to become Hypo sized. They are going to tear each other apart if there's more than 2 or 3 in one lake, because there's only so much food to go around, and being Apexes, they need a lot.

[Darth Absentis]

any gameplay you might have seen might already never be like you saw shown to public.

what i mean by that is the devs, once they have their recoding done propperly, should be capable of micro managing statistics on dinosaurs and other creatures as they see it fit, to balance things out.

they could make the sucho slow like hell on land for an example, or increase the hunger

and a lot will depend on the inviroment too.

i mean, on the v3 map...i would not even like to be a sucho a lot.

titan lake barely knows visitors every day, so even if i have like a hunger drain of a dillo, i probably simply wont survive.

On top of that, even if the implementation of fish ai fixes that one, if you actually watc out for not to steep river banks and are always ready to pull away from the water in a sprint, being a giant crocodile attempting to ambush other animals might not be that easy

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

On the contrary, I think there should be a few animals that specialize in sticking in one place. All the aquatics will be sticking in one area in general, since Sucho has no real reason to move around from one little stretch of river unless an Apex rolls around. Spino has the freedom to move around, since the oceans are huge and it can travel to other islands, but it has no reason to.

If someone doesn't like how one animal plays, they don't have to play it. I wouldn't mind at all just hanging out as a croc in one lake until something rolls by. And considering that most people probably don't want to lose their Deino to Infinite Growth / Imminent starvation, myself included. I won't grow past sub-adult for that reason.

Plus, considering how territorial Apexes can be, it won't be as if there's a sudden flood of Deinos all rising to become Hypo sized. They are going to tear each other apart if there's more than 2 or 3 in one lake, because there's only so much food to go around, and being Apexes, they need a lot.

Sticking in one place kinda wastes the point in the map you know? Like, why make it absolutely huge if you're gonna add in some animals that will just stay in the same place, Plus suchomimus will most likely be nerfed(sadly) so it might not even mind herbivores, and spinosaurus will mostly be out at sea (which IMO is wasted potential) so most herbivores won't fear it, or encountering one will be rare.

[Sable]

Originally posted by Krona:

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

On the contrary, I think there should be a few animals that specialize in sticking in one place. All the aquatics will be sticking in one area in general, since Sucho has no real reason to move around from one little stretch of river unless an Apex rolls around. Spino has the freedom to move around, since the oceans are huge and it can travel to other islands, but it has no reason to.

If someone doesn't like how one animal plays, they don't have to play it. I wouldn't mind at all just hanging out as a croc in one lake until something rolls by. And considering that most people probably don't want to lose their Deino to Infinite Growth / Imminent starvation, myself included. I won't grow past sub-adult for that reason.

Plus, considering how territorial Apexes can be, it won't be as if there's a sudden flood of Deinos all rising to become Hypo sized. They are going to tear each other apart if there's more than 2 or 3 in one lake, because there's only so much food to go around, and being Apexes, they need a lot.

Sticking in one place kinda wastes the point in the map you know? Like, why make it absolutely huge if you're gonna add in some animals that will just stay in the same place, Plus suchomimus will most likely be nerfed(sadly) so it might not even mind herbivores, and spinosaurus will mostly be out at sea (which IMO is wasted potential) so most herbivores won't fear it, or encountering one will be rare.

Again, if you don't want to stay in one place, you don't have to play it. If you want to play something that can travel, there is literally, the entire rest of the roster to choose from. The rest of the map is for the animals that can't or don't need to be in one place. Deino is not the only creature in Survival. The map design doesn't revolve solely around the Deino.

Sucho probably won't get that much of a nerf. Its size alone is enough of a defense against Mids. In this game, size is pretty much what determines what kills what. To nerf something that big to the point that it can't defend itself would get a lot of backlash, which is something I think the devs don't want any more than what they already get.

Spino being an ocean predator as well as being Rex's superior in battling certain animals is the best thing they could have done for it. There is no other niche for it where it wouldn't be just another apex or just another swimmer.

[SkBonez]

With all the work we’ve seen the devs put into figuring out how to make rivers and streams I highly doubt that Deinosuchus will be forced to stay in one body of water when such a convenient system of travel would exist. Plus, I feel when traveling that deinos should have to make brief treks across land to reach new water so that that’s their moment of vulnerability.

As for the unlimited growth, I do agree that that’s a bad idea for a regular animal to have. Maybe make it like a strain where you have to discover it and earn it to use it as opposed to just putting a hard time limit on a player’s creature.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

Again, if you don't want to stay in one place, you don't have to play it. If you want to play something that can travel, there is literally, the entire rest of the roster to choose from. The rest of the map is for the animals that can't or don't need to be in one place. Deino is not the only creature in Survival. The map design doesn't revolve solely around the Deino.

Sucho probably won't get that much of a nerf. Its size alone is enough of a defense against Mids. In this game, size is pretty much what determines what kills what. To nerf something that big to the point that it can't defend itself would get a lot of backlash, which is something I think the devs don't want any more than what they already get.

Spino being an ocean predator as well as being Rex's superior in battling certain animals is the best thing they could have done for it. There is no other niche for it where it wouldn't be just another apex or just another swimmer.

That's fair on deino, but I feel like it will still cause a ton of unneeded salt due to that camping is the only way to play it, deinosuchus being a bush simulator wouldn't be fun, and if it is boring, I will not play it. But it's still just the core problem that it feels like it's existence will incentivize players to just not go near big bodies of water.

I would personally take away the dumb time limit you have to play it. Just make that the feature of hypo deino instead.


For spino, the reason why I dislike ocean hunter is because it feels lame to just make something's unique ability to hunt AI, it's like why making giga a sauropod killer is lame. It would also take forever to develop and would basically be like making a new game.

[Sable]

Originally posted by Krona:

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

Again, if you don't want to stay in one place, you don't have to play it. If you want to play something that can travel, there is literally, the entire rest of the roster to choose from. The rest of the map is for the animals that can't or don't need to be in one place. Deino is not the only creature in Survival. The map design doesn't revolve solely around the Deino.

Sucho probably won't get that much of a nerf. Its size alone is enough of a defense against Mids. In this game, size is pretty much what determines what kills what. To nerf something that big to the point that it can't defend itself would get a lot of backlash, which is something I think the devs don't want any more than what they already get.

Spino being an ocean predator as well as being Rex's superior in battling certain animals is the best thing they could have done for it. There is no other niche for it where it wouldn't be just another apex or just another swimmer.

That's fair on deino, but I feel like it will still cause a ton of unneeded salt due to that camping is the only way to play it, deinosuchus being a bush simulator wouldn't be fun, and if it is boring, I will not play it. But it's still just the core problem that it feels like it's existence will incentivize players to just not go near big bodies of water.

I would personally take away the dumb time limit you have to play it. Just make that the feature of hypo deino instead.


For spino, the reason why I dislike ocean hunter is because it feels lame to just make something's unique ability to hunt AI, it's like why making giga a sauropod killer is lame. It would also take forever to develop and would basically be like making a new game.

I agree with you on the Giga v. Sauropod part. That's why I hope that Camara ends up as playable. I also don't like that the Infinite Growth is something that is inevitable, and I was hoping that it would work the same as the normal Growth System, where it would be activated via Esc > Growth.

However, for Spino, they are opening up an entire new ecosystem, and it will be all marine life. We will be getting more marine playables, and Spino is just the first because it sort of connects the main ecosystem to that of the ocean. We don't know what is in store yet for the marine part, but it'll likely consist of Mosasaurs, Plesiosaurs, and other famous prehistoric marine creatures. Hell, even the aerial hunters like Quetz and Ptera are basically pelicans, so they too will have a connection with the ocean.