Anno 2205

Anno 2205

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bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 3, 2015 @ 10:59am
$110 for a game? Is this fair? Let's look at the data...
Many people have complained about the high price tag for Anno 2205. Some have estimated that if you bought the Gold Edition for the season pass for the DLCs ($80) and later bought the expansion ($30) that the game would cost $110. Is this fair? Is Ubisoft making too much money off their customers? I think the best way to answer these questions about Anno 2205 is to look at Anno 2070:

How many copies of Anno 2070 were sold?
Over 1.41 million copies. As many or more copies sold than Warcraft 3, C&C: Red Alert, Spore, XCOM, Warhammer, all of the Total War games combined, and many other well known titles. Anno 2070 wasn't a "niche" game as some have suggested; it's quite popular and here's the data:
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/50771/anno-2070/Global/

How much money was made from the sale of Anno 2070?
At an average price of $50, over $70 million in gross sales. This is a conservative estimate as many people purchased one or all of the nine DLCs and the $20 expansion while others bought the game on sale.

How much does it cost to create a game like Anno 2070?
Somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 to 8 million. Traditional manufacturing companies list employees at around 33% of their expenses, with overhead, equipment, and raw materials making up the rest. However, in software development, 80-90% of the expenses are its employees (programmers, graphic designers, sound engineers, quality control, etc.) as there are no raw materials and overhead/equipment is just a room with computers in it. A project team of 50 people, working full-time on a game for 2 years, at an average salary of $60k/year = $6 million. Add development software, computer hardware, building overhead, and you get another 1-2 million in expenses.

Is Ubisoft making a profit off Anno 2070, and will they make a profit off Anno 2205?
Yes. No matter how you parse the data on sales or expenses, when you do the math you get rediculous amounts of net income. Now, not every game is a success, but we know from the sales of Anno 2070 that Anno 2205 will be as popular or even more popular. So why are they selling Anno 2205 for $80-110? Because they can. Because that's what drives corporations: quarterly earnings, profit, greed. Ubisoft wants every penny it can squeeze out of its customers and it shows.

Greed isn't all bad, if there was no incentive to produce these good games then we wouldn't have them, however, greed unchecked is a bad thing. It's a balancing act, and when corporations go too far...

Greedy corporate behavior decreases consumer demand and hurts the gaming industry.
  • Outrageous price tag. (Anno 2205)
  • DRM limiting you to 3 installations. (Anno 2070)
  • UPlay. Universally hated, confirmed spyware. (all Ubisoft games)
  • False advertisement of preorder beta access. (Anno 2205)
  • Hidden microtransactions. (Assassin's Creed 3)
These behaviors have consequences. Just look at the DRM scandal with Anno 2070. Look at the game's Steam rating and read the reviews on the Store Page. Mixed?!?! Only 66% positive?!?! Read the negative reviews, they all say the same thing: "love the game, hate the DRM, hate UPlay, don't buy even if on sale." You get people who would rather pirate than pay for the game because they feel they'd get a better experience. This is bad for the gaming industry because less people are exposed to the game/genre (bad reviews) and more people pirate (price too high, numerous complaints). That means less games made that are like Anno, less investments by game companies into this genre, and more piracy.
Last edited by bernie sanders; Jul 3, 2015 @ 1:05pm
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Showing 1-15 of 72 comments
DEFIER Jul 3, 2015 @ 12:43pm 
Great post Bernie.

I wonder if they were to sell it at $40 globally... Would they make even more money!
There is no need for it to be sold at $110 not even for Dubai players!

Anyway, I am excited about Anno 2205, but in the meantime, I am playing Anno 2070 & all its DLCs.
Last edited by DEFIER; Jul 3, 2015 @ 12:44pm
Profound Jul 3, 2015 @ 1:13pm 
Yeah, I'm going to guess they averaged 15 dollars a game at best, and probably like 10-ish.
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 3, 2015 @ 1:31pm 
Originally posted by Profound:
Yeah, I'm going to guess they averaged 15 dollars a game at best, and probably like 10-ish.
Was there a point in there? I'm having trouble reading through your corporate shillnanigans.
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 3, 2015 @ 9:51pm 
Originally posted by DEFIER:
Great post Bernie.

I wonder if they were to sell it at $40 globally... Would they make even more money!
There is no need for it to be sold at $110 not even for Dubai players!

Anyway, I am excited about Anno 2205, but in the meantime, I am playing Anno 2070 & all its DLCs.
Thanks, and I agree with you about the lowered price, it would encourage even more players to become addicted to the series/genre.
Tuxgamer Jul 3, 2015 @ 11:46pm 
$50 profit / sell? Really? Ever thought of taxes? Retailer profits? And lots bought the game for less money.

By the way: The game only costs $60. And development costs should be bigger than $8 million - advertisement and distribution is really expensive.

Such calculations are quite silly, because you don't have enough data. If you really want to do such analysis, just use official data. Ubisoft is a big company, so it is hard to get information about one specific game. Just take a lock at Ubisoft Press Release.
https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/comsite_common/en-US/images/d20150512033628ubisoft%20fy15%20earnings%20english%20finaltcm99202501.pdf

Then Ubisoft suddenly doesn't earn 88,6% of the money you spent , but only 7,7%.

DRM limiting you to 3 installations. (Anno 2070)
No, you can install on every PC you find. You could even play on all PCs at the same time (if you play offline). 3 installation limit was Anno 1404 - but they removed this limitation.
Update: Ok, 4 installations and 1 additional installation / month. Shouldn't be a problem? (Who has more than 4 Gaming-PCs or wants to reinstall a game more than one time/month?)

And false information on Steam is not really the fault of Ubisoft.

Where is Uplay confirmed to by a Spyware?
Last edited by Tuxgamer; Jul 4, 2015 @ 12:35am
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 4, 2015 @ 1:38am 
Originally posted by Tuxgamer:
1.) $50 profit / sell? Really? Ever thought of taxes? Retailer profits? And lots bought the game for less money.

2.) By the way: The game only costs $60. And development costs should be bigger than $8 million - advertisement and distribution is really expensive.

3.) Such calculations are quite silly, because you don't have enough data. If you really want to do such analysis, just use official data. Ubisoft is a big company, so it is hard to get information about one specific game. Just take a lock at Ubisoft Press Release.
https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/comsite_common/en-US/images/d20150512033628ubisoft%20fy15%20earnings%20english%20finaltcm99202501.pdf

4.) Then Ubisoft suddenly doesn't earn 88,6% of the money you spent , but only 7,7%.

5.)
DRM limiting you to 3 installations. (Anno 2070)
No, you can install on every PC you find. You could even play on all PCs at the same time (if you play offline). 3 installation limit was Anno 1404 - but they removed this limitation.

6.) And false information on Steam is not really the fault of Ubisoft.

7.) Where is Uplay confirmed to by a Spyware?
INCREDIBLE. EVERY SINGLE POINT YOU'VE RAISED IS EITHER MISINFORMATION OR FLAT-OUT WRONG.
I've numbered your points to match my counter-points. Here we go:

1.) I used a $50 price as an average. The initial selling price of the game in 2011 was, in fact, $50. There were nine DLCs totalling about $20 and one expansion priced at $20. These prices have gone down since their initial release, and some people even bought the game on sale. But still many others bought DLC and expansion content. So you have some who spent more than $50 and some who spent less depending on when they bought it and how much extra content they purchased. I think $50 as an average is a reasonable starting point for these calculations, especially when you see that over half of Anno 2070's sales were in the first year of release (full price).

As far as sales tax goes, the customer pays that, not the publisher. When you see your bill, you will notice that you don't pay $49.99, but get a tax added on to that cost depending on where you live (8.5% sales tax for me).

2.) As I stated in the first line, the $110 calculation is based on the $80 Gold Edition which includes the season pass for DLC and an estimate of the cost of the expansion, which will likely be $30. This isn't even my estimation (I think it will be more expensive than that, and that not all the DLC will be covered by the season pass) but some other fanboy's estimations. So yes, the base game is only $60, but it doesn't include the rest of the game that is parsed off into DLC and an "expansion". You do realize that they make all this content prior to realising the game, right? That's why companies like Ubisoft release DLC on day 1. And what companies call "expansions" these days is a joke. They sell 85% of a game for full price, then turn around and sell the other 15% as DLC and "expansions".

3.) You linked the 2014-15 earnings report, the one they e-mail to all their investers. Anno 2070 was released in 2011 and there is absolutely ZERO information in this report related to Anno 2070. However, this report is awesome because it proves the a key point in my original post: that Ubisoft is making a huge profit on these games (see my counter-point #4).

4.) Direct quote from the report you linked, page 2:
"Gross profit represented a record 77.0% of sales (€1,126.7million) in 2014-15, compared with 71.7% (€721.8 million) in 2013-14. This very strong year-on-year increase reflects the positive impact of the success of Ubisoft’s games and the increasing importance of the digital segment."

Gross profit is a company's residual profit after selling a product or service and deducting the cost associated with its production and sale. To calculate gross profit: examine the income statement, take the revenue and subtract the cost of goods sold.

So I estimated, using only the total units sold and deductive reasoning about their business model, that Ubisoft made 88.6% gross profit on Anno 2070 in 2011. And this report you linked states that in 2014-15 Ubisoft made 77.0% gross profit off all of their games. How freakin' amazing am I to be so close to the mark? Some sort of God. Get rekt kid.

For those of you who are curious, the last part about "increasing importance of the digital segment" is talking about how by downloading games via Steam/UPlay, that Ubisoft is reducing the costs of distribution because they don't have to package & ship CDs. Too bad they don't pass on those savings to their customers. :/

5.) There was most definitely a DRM limit of 3 installations with Anno 2070. I'm not going to even bother provinding data to back this common knowledge because the entire community has been raging about it for years. Google it.

6.) Who made the Ubisoft Banner Pic on the Store Page that contains the false advertisment? You think Valve designs every one of the thousands of game pages on Steam and makes custom banner ads for them? Nope. It's a collabrative effort between Valve and Ubisoft, with Ubisoft providing all the content and Valve doing the formatting. It's Ubisoft's content that contains misleading information designed to encourage pre-orders to boost their quarterly profits. Ubisoft is at fault, and Valve is only responsible for holding them accountable for their lie.

7.) You need only do a bit of googling to uncover a number of spyware "incidents" involving UPlay. I have had personal experience with it as well. Here's an article for you:
http://www.gamewatcher.com/news/2012-30-07-ubisoft-s-uplay-blasted-as-rootkit-installs-unsecure-browser-plug-in-update

CHECKMATE.
Last edited by bernie sanders; Jul 4, 2015 @ 1:57am
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 4, 2015 @ 1:54am 
For those who won't bother reading my wall of checkmate above that completely shuts down Tuxgamer, you should know there is one REALLY interesting thing about the report he linked:

Ubisoft made 77.0% gross profit last year, that's 1.12 billion euros.
That's billion with a B ... just ... wow. Think about that when you see Anno 2205 retailing for $80.
Last edited by bernie sanders; Jul 4, 2015 @ 1:55am
Tycoon Jul 4, 2015 @ 2:16am 
Why are you interested about the profit of Ubisoft ?
FIrst they build a new engine.This cost some time and money and then they begin with the game. So this development of ANNO 2205 has a duration of 3 years. That´s much time without earning many money.
Next step i tell you a secret, Ubisoft is a company. Companies wanna earn money and get their profit. Gamer who thinks that this is a benefication must be wake up.
Now about Uplay. I´m not a fan about this program. Now we all think why Ubisoft do this. Many people don´t pay for their games. They think it´s okay but the Developer don´t think the same. They don´t get money for their long time work. They develope this to get their money. No Robbery, no Uplay. You can send a "thank" to this player...

Spyware....?Aha...

Ah you don´t must pay if it too expensive for you. Wait and it´s cheaper. Easy isn´t it ?
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 4, 2015 @ 2:29am 
Greetings steam level 0 account "Tycoon". Your french-to-english translator doesn't work very well. Get your employer Ubisoft to buy you a better one.
Tycoon Jul 4, 2015 @ 3:13am 
Level 0 ? Not really. My english must be not the best one but i´m not so rude like you.If
i´m living in France i don´t have the right to discuss here?
Okay you don´t know how companies works but i don´t must discuss with a rude child.
Vielleicht kannst Du diese Sprache ja sogar lesen und wenn nicht ist es mir auch egal.Leute die keine Ahnung haben davon gibt es jede Menge.
Tycoon Jul 4, 2015 @ 3:13am 
Vive la...ach keine Ahnung...
Tuxgamer Jul 4, 2015 @ 3:17am 
@bernie sanders

1) I know you tock $50 as an average, but $50 is to high.
Of course the customer pays the tax, but that doesn't change the fact, that the tax is included in the price, you see when buying the product. What about Retailer profit? At release Anno 2070 didn't sell to well. Read news about 100 000 sells in first two weeks - something like that. So if your data is correct, lots bought Complete-Edition. I don't think everyone bought DLCs. And not everyone bought deep ocean.
To get $50 average, e. g. nearly everyone would had to buy at release both - Game and Expansion pack (or all DLCs).

2) Yes, but you don't have to buy DLCs and Expansion Packs. You can buy the basic-Game for $60 - which like you said - contains nearly every content.

3) Did you read my comment? "Ubisoft is a big company, so it is hard to get information about one specific game." You can search for 2011 release - if you like. OK, I'll give you a link:
https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/en-US/press/detail.aspx?cid=tcm:99-47692-16&ctid=tcm:95-27313-32
Even lower values...
But this woun't give you much information about Anno 2070 anyway. Anno is definitly not the most profitable game of Ubisoft...
This is just an average value for all Ubisoft-Games. Profits of Anno should be lower.

4) Just ignore every other number on this pdf. Especially those, who are subtracted from your profit. Should work perfectly - at last until you are bankrupt.
Here's a link for you: http://smallbusiness.chron.com/gross-profit-vs-operating-income-65902.html
So of course Ubisoft has also to pay every non directly product related coast.

That's probably the big problem. You are calculating pretty generous and you are not including any not product related costs. And that makes the difference between about awesome 80% and 5-10%.


5) I noticed and updated my post; 4 activations + 1 per month - I didn't even noticed this limitation. Shouldn't be a problem... And if you need more activations, you can still ask Ubisoft and they will give you more.

6) Why are you so sure, you won't get a Beta-Key?

7) "number of incidents"... It was the only incident. Every software can have Bugs - this bug wasn't even actively exploited. If I remember right, this plugin was able to start Uplay, but other websites were able to start every program. This is your proof Uplay is a Spyware?
Last edited by Tuxgamer; Jul 4, 2015 @ 3:19am
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 4, 2015 @ 9:20am 
@tux
This is what happens when non-business, non-accountant, people like you try and analyse financial reports. You don't understand what gross profit is, even though I've explained it to you. You don't understand what companies do with gross profit, or the games us accountants play with gross income before it becomes taxable net income.
bernie sanders (Banned) Jul 4, 2015 @ 11:55am 
The fact remains, that after they deduct their expensives, all the costs it takes to develope and produce games, they bring home 77.0% in profit.

Remember that when you go to buy one of Ubisoft's games, and when someone tells you that Ubisoft is "struggling to get by" or needs to raise the price "because of inflation".
Last edited by bernie sanders; Jul 4, 2015 @ 11:55am
Tuxgamer Jul 4, 2015 @ 12:57pm 
Just stop trolling with your 77%; that's ridiculous. I really don't care about any abstract values economists calculate - like gross profit. I just care about the money, you earn - and that's definitely operating income. And if you don't believe it, you just prove, you don't know anything.

Please - operating income. Even if you don't know anything, you should have heard this expression. You don't even have to know such things - just use Google! So please do me a favour and do so. For example just read me article, I linked.

Other question: What should operating income - which is much smaller - describe, if Gross provit already describes the money, you actually earn. And nothing else is interesting. And at this point even you should notice, your 77% are nothing else but absurd.

One last time (with easy numbers): Your company sells goods for $100. All materials + work costs $50. So your Gross provit is $50, which makes a rate of 50%.
But of course, you don't just have to play for work and materials. There are fixed costs (you know what fixed costs are, or shall I explain this, too). Let's $40. So your operating provit makes $10 and that makes 10%.

I don't care, if 77% is high or low, because I'm no economist. That's task of Ubisoft-people. The only thing I'm interesting is the money, money in Ubisoft account. And that makes 5-10%.
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Date Posted: Jul 3, 2015 @ 10:59am
Posts: 72