Which is the best summoner class?

[benai]

Greetings.
I would like to make a summoner build but which one is the best option Warden, Warlock or Mechanist?
The only build I have seen so far was the warden build from 다영.

[TMaz94]

Mechanist has the best summoner build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJdBQl9xAEw

[ElfenLied71]

Paladin, rumbling army set (summons 4 ultimate summons) + dancing blades, you can do nothing at all summons cut everything clean. Mechanist, this is just a call to a killbot, which does not hang up invulnerability, but accelerates its damage, but you need to constantly press it, since it lives for 20 seconds, dies, the damage is reset, well, everything is in a circle. Both tear the mystical 15 difficulty, but as for me for a mechanist, it's annoying, you need to constantly call on the killbot.

[Blondyn]

If we're talking lower Tiers (400/500), Warlock has one of the laziest & zoomiest summoner builds in the game. Plague Bearers built around the Plague Mage set & almost screen wide bursting Boils explosions - this would be the 'best' for casual play & speedfarming.

If we're talking purely damage potential & tier pushing - Killbots Mechanist hands down.

There are more builds but they wouldn't be considered 'best':
- Bleed Wolfmancer Warden
- Multiple variations of Wispmother Warden
- Bleed Dancing Blades Templar
- Hit spam Thundering Army Templar
- Infernal Demons Warlock
- Living Blood Warlock
- Bomb Bots Mechanist
These are just the builds off the top of my head and all can be considered viable & decent at what they're trying to accomplish.

[Astasia]

I would say mechanically, mechanist killbot build is not a summoner. Summoners are passive builds, your minions do all the work and you basically just follow them around. If you are pressing a button constantly to make things die, that is just a normal or hybrid nuker build, whether the thing you create that deals damage is a meteor, lightning bolt, or a robot, it's just a cosmetic difference basically, the point is you are pushing a button to kill things.

Beyond that I don't have anything to contribute, I think all the summoner options in the game are fully capable of clearing all meaningful content. The "best" is just a matter of pushing pointless numbers higher to get a little further in an endless dungeon which provides no useful rewards at that point.

[Blondyn]

Not sure why all the bias against Killbots but I feel like this is barking under the wrong tree. They can be played in a <really> passive way (which includes using skills for 1-2s every 25-30s = you have ~28s of just running after them without lifting a finger). And they in fact play more like a typical summoner (huge frontloaded damage, no stacking of anything on enemies, barely any player input).

70% of Companion builds in this game are more involved (Wispmother does no damage without Warden attacks / Thundering army & Dancing Blades all need to stack their thing on enemies before dealing any actual damage / etc).

If we want to go by the video TMaz94 linked... that's a build that is designed to push triple digit Tiers so it isn't exactly the norm. It's a min/maxed outlier.

'The warden build from 다영' mentioned in the first post wasn't really optimised even back when it was up to date, so we can't measure other builds against it. The question 'which is the best summoner class?' implies some degree of pushing and/or min maxing.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Blondyn:

NThey can be played in a <really> passive way (which includes using skills for 1-2s every 25-30s = you have ~28s of just running after them without lifting a finger).

That's really not passive at all, and in fact it's probably one of the most mentally "active" builds in the game. You aren't just holding one button down and watching everything die, and you aren't just not pushing anything and watching everything die. It's a build that requires actively paying attention to what is happening in combat and pushing a button when the situation demands it every 20-30 seconds. It's basically the antitheses of the summoner playstyle, and I just imagine somebody looking for a "summoner build" is looking for a build that plays like a typical summoner, as in hands/brain off.

I'm not saying it's not strong, or that some people don't enjoy it, and the OP might be fine with it, but I just felt like pointing out it's about as much a summoner build as say Summon Raging Spirits in Path of Exile is. It uses a minion tag, it creates something that looks like a minion, but it plays like something else.

[benai]

Currently I am using a warden build with lightning and cold as its primary damage source (doggies, wisps, pixie) and 4 spiders for healing.
My active skills are Nimbus and Eye of the Storm. Hope that I later have enough recharge reduction to trigger double cast of Nimbus.

So my aim is to get better Sets or at least a full one for Summoner Garbs and Master's Command and then either Armor of the Wispmother (to 3 for 3 more wisps) or the Version for the Doggies.
Currently I have an item with an orange text were I get an Alpha doggie in addition and more damage.
But I havent found any Master's Command set items.

[TMaz94]

@Astasia If this build is what you'd call "mentally active", you're simply playing it wrong. You stack enemies, you hold down one button, and you watch everything die - regardless of your surroundings. That's all there's to it. Killbot's death also has visual cues, no issues there unless you're literally looking away from the screen. And while I've never played PoE, powerful temporary companions seem to be quite the common theme in RPGs, so even if there wasn't any visual cues, this is a textbook example of a summoner build.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by TMaz94:

@Astasia If this build is what you'd call "mentally active", you're simply playing it wrong. You stack enemies, you hold down one button, and you watch everything die - regardless of your surroundings. That's all there's to it. Killbot's death also has visual cues, no issues there unless you're literally looking away from the screen. And while I've never played PoE, powerful temporary companions seem to be quite the common theme in RPGs, so even if there wasn't any visual cues, this is a textbook example of a summoner build.

It is relative. The build requires more focus than a majority of builds in the game, that is just objective fact. Whether it is a lot of focus is not the question. And yes it's pretty easy to play most of the builds without directly looking at the screen, with this genre it's pretty common to be watching something on another screen while playing.

Yes temporary companions are a common RPG mechanic, a different mechanic than permanent minion master builds. This game uses a mix of both, though they are predominantly the permanent kind. I'm not sure what your point was here, I never said temporary minions weren't a common thing and I even mentioned an example of one in another game. Path of Exile has persistent zombie, spectre and golem builds that are generally what people talk about in regards to minion builds, but it also has temporary spirits and skeletons that some people also use and can be quite strong either as an addition to other minions or in a focused build.

[TMaz94]

Very optimised builds usually can't afford to have the player take their eyes off the screen. There's not a lot of guides floating around to showcase some of the "optimal" strategies which can make the endgame a massive pain to deal with, so I can see why you would think that most builds in this game don't require much attention. However, relatively speaking, the build shown in the video is in fact one of the easier high tier viable builds to play.

The point behind mentioning temporary companions was to address the argument about this being "the antitheses of a summoner build", even though it's not uncommon for summon builds to have to mind a minion's uptime. Maybe I should have been more clear about that, my bad.

[JunK]

to me its simple. if something is labeled a companion, and its the main damaging skill, its a "summoner" build.
bleed dancing blades templar was mentioned, but thats no different functionally than any other build, where you yourself have to be casting skills because your companions cast them too. still a summoner build, or rather, companion build.

which is best is a different discussion. what do you consider "best" criteria?
personally i prefer low-micro and fast builds even at lower tiers than janky mechanic heavy high tier pushing - which is ultimately quite slow as well.
i'd rather spend 2 minutes clearing t500 than 20 minutes at t1000.

unfortunately this means i don't really prefer mechanist as a class in general. im trying a few builds but theres nothing that i really prefer to use, other than what i've created, because its again low micro and built for speed farming.

also, with mechanist in mind, would turrets be considered summoner? they're not "companion" skills but you are "summoning" them

[Secret]

Originally posted by JunK:

to me its simple. if something is labeled a companion, and its the main damaging skill, its a "summoner" build.

it really is exactly that cut and dry.

[tynian87116]

Originally posted by TMaz94:

Mechanist has the best summoner build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJdBQl9xAEw

and here I was, all bright eyed and bushy tailed that I'd found my living prism tank build... only too watch that vid and realize "Oh yeah, you thought that was nuts, how about this AFK (Always. F**king. Killing) build?"