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So what you will be able to do is...
- Re-roll all enchants into something random, unless they have been locked.
- Pick a specific enchant to re-roll it's value, unless it has been locked.
- Lock an enchant to prevent it from being re-rolled.
- Augment locked enchants, by slightly improving the rolled value.
(subject to change)No plans for equipment crafting at this point... and also no plan to allow the base values to be changed at this point, either. I also might change this, of course. We'll see how it all feels once it's in the game, basically!
True Legendary items will be able to be reforged like any other :)
(Also, weapons with a base attack speed other than 100% has it's Damage value scaled accordingly, giving the same DPS for a base attack regardless, but obviously slower weapons are more favorable for some skills / builds, and vice versa)
I know you are not looking into equipment crafting at this point Squarebit but what if you need to destroy items to get materials in order to reforge items. I know this it not original - Diablo 3 *cough* but hear me out. In order to reroll a Legendary u need to destroy a legendary to get one reroll material same for true legendaries. So you need material of equal rarity to get a reroll.
Benefits: I am sitting currently 6 True Legendary chest pieces (Resitance). But because they are True Legendary I cant get myslef to sell them. The above mentioned idea makes it so that a player still feels excited when he finds a True Legendary/Legendary (even if he has evey single one of them) because it is a chance to upgrade existing gear.
Will see what I can do :)
What do you mean by "double rolls", exactly? Like an item that had "of Pain and Suffering"; essentially two enchants of the same bonus on one item?
Regardless, good information, thanks!
No worries! Thread consolidation is a good thing.
But I also like this idea... I hate making Legendary runs and having to flush my inventory of what could be otherwise useful Legendary and True Legendary items. :(
Rockpounders
Requires:
Fist of the Golem
Soul of the Raging Berserker
Tempered Metal (Steel, Iron, Adamantine?)
Tempered Metal Nails (for the passive Bleed effect on them specifically)
Something else
Something else (this is a Legendary set item, after all)
Plus one additional material, for a bonus effect. The rarer the material, the better the effect. Something like an additional nail, or beast tooth/claw, could improve the base Bleed damage, or give it an attack speed bonus as a Swift enchant would, without having "Swift Rockpounders" when crafted. That way you could reforge it with mods you wanted, with a nifty bonus effect outside of reforged enchants.
I mean two identical enchants merging into a higher value... like "of Fire" becoming "of Conflagration" (I think that's the name, there's like 150 enchant names, so I get them mixed up quite a bit). So basically the "Augment" bit of the reforge would replace the "double rolls", although that means somewhat weaker base items on average, but more varied. Which again with a reforge system in place is probably only advantageous!
A solution I suggest is that the first Enchanter provided to you (or readily at your disposal) would only have the ability to manipulate mods of items Rare and below. More powerful Enchanters, however, are not readily at your disposal. Instead, they will be wandering around somewhere within the Anomalies (or whatever future content), however, should you find them, they can manipulate items of Unique or higher rarity for something more than simply Crystals (Legendary item manipulators would obviously want something of extreme significance (what use would they have with Crystals?) unless there's that one-off who'd do it for free...).
The suggestion of being able to "lock" a mod seems wrong to me... However, what could happen is if items have a "potential" stat of which can not be restored by any means. Common items would have very high potential while Legendary items have far less potential (Logically speaking, Legendary items are basically at the peak of power). Let's say, everytime you alter an item, an amount of potential is used up based on what you manipulated on the item. The more specific the alteration is, the more "potential" it consumes. An item must have a required amount of "potential" in order to be altered, if insufficient, it would no longer be eligible to further alterations.
I plan to make the enchanter unlockable in sections, the further you get through the story, the more they'll be able to do. Wandering enchanters (stronger/fully unlocked) randomly spawning in the world could be a thing, too...
Anyway, I will be doing a lot of testing to see what feels best before I release it :)
This would be entirely counterproductive to adding reforging. The point of allowing us to reforge items is negate the "endless grind" for that one item with the perfect rolls, not to add more RNG by limiting the amount of times we can alter an item; which, if a streak of bad luck occurred, would cause you to be unhappy with the item and either sell it or deconstruct it since it has bad rolls and is of no use to you. (I do like the ability to deconstruct items you won't use for materials... that should definitely make it in the game.)
Essentially adding a decay-type mechanic to the crafting (if you want to call reforging crafting right now) sounds like something that one would see in one of those bad Korean MMORPGs that no one likes.
I believe requiring rare materials to alter your items, depending on what you're doing, is the way to go here.
Assuming a L100 Legendary+ item:
Rerolling all enchants and their values - Crystals
Rerolling one particular enchant's values - More crystals
Locking an enchant that you're happy with - More crystals + rare item(s)
Slightly boosting a locked enchant's values - Much more crystals + multiple rare materials, and I believe Squarebit wanted to add a chance for items to break upon this kind of improving... though I am no fan of that. :P
So there's really no need to gate the amount of times we can alter an item in such a way that would eventually render the item useless if we got unlucky. That kind of goes against reforging as a whole, since it is planned to be gated anyway by both currency and material requirements, which you could easily run out of in the process and have to stop to go farm more. (Emphasizing the rarity of certain materials is a must in this regard. They shouldn't drop as commonly as some items do right now.)
"Locking" mods isn't anything like "reforging" (This is elaborated later)... But reforging should never be designed to negate the "endless grind". This would be counterintuitive to any ARPG. I don't believe I need to argue this point... Although, I can clearly understand that you would want to be as powerful as possible, however, seemingly, as fast as possible as well...
To me, "reforging" is basically re-rolling all of the mods on an item. Reforging is simply the act of putting an item through the forging process again. This means, in return, you would get "more or less" what you've put in. This is what the nomenclature of "reforging" would suggest. Your suggestion is something like "customizing" a piece of equipment like adding/removing decoratives, sharpening blades, changing hilts/weapon grips, things that only touch upon a few things of a "finished" product and not actually "reforging" it. It's just way too specific to be called reforging. "Reforging" should be a "risk" and not something that you would be throwing Crystals and material at because reforging isn't an easy craft and shouldn't be such that'll give you that you'd desire so easily.
Also "reforging" would suggest that reforged items would have a point where it can no longer be reforged. Could a sword be reforged with no limits? Would one be able to replicate the exact specs as before? You might as well make a new one because it's now all unbalanced by having reforged over and over. Legendary items especially. Can one "reforge" such a powerful item? Having reforged it over and over. Would it still retain the same power that was imbued in it? Everytime an item would go through reforging, its new prime would always be weaker than its previous. This is why "reforging" should be designed as a ponderable decision and not a one-dimensional one.
"Reforging" should be simply be the rerolling of an entire item (mods and rarity to some extent) however retaining it's level. I believe "enchanting" (or "crafting") would be the process of enchanting new mods (up to rarity maximum) , alter/remove these enchanted mods that don not touch on the "pre-enchanted" item (see Path of Exile master crafting). It would go without saying that both these features will obviously cost Crystals in conjunction with other "materials".
I suggested to use this "potential" mechanic to reflect upon these ideas. It's basically a sort of gauge/factor of how much power could be changed in an item and how much power could be contained in it. Legendaries would be harder to work with because of the incredible power that's already within it thus having low potential. Other item tiers below Legendary, I believe would allow them "potentially" increase tiers (up to Unique)and become a strong placeholder for Legendaries because of initially having weaker power and consequently more potential (note that it will take a very powerful itemsmith to make the most efficient use of said potential...).
Also, I'm quite sure Squarebit is making another pass on item and item mods in general and with the Skill Tree revamp I'm sure they'll change the game far more than items would...
While I don't necessarily disagree with True Legendaries having random mods on them (I was surprised to see it, too), it would be incredibly painstaking to create literally hundreds of static items to compensate for every build and playstyle in the game. It wouldn't exactly be "fair" for a True Legendary (with static stats on it) to not benefit an entire class, where another class could use it no matter how they played. (Also, it wouldn't be right for it to only work for one class' build, or skill tree.)
So by them being able to be "reforged", that problem doesn't exist. Since they're so new, and very weird things are being done with them, I'm sure they're going to get a second pass, though.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to spend a year playing the game only to be searching for a single item, or two, that had good rolls. Not even the developer of the game wants that kind of RNG in his game. It's also kind of a bad design. Yes, it keeps you playing, and it also keeps you hunting that "one item"... but at the same time, you're getting burnt out very quickly of continually hunting that "one item", whether it has a static boss drop or only drops in a particular area, etc.
Does it kind of go against the norm of ARPGs? Yes, but it's not a bad thing at all, as the whole "endless grind" thing is far overplayed in ARPGs by this point in time, and ultimately becomes the one thing you hate most once you get to that point.
Don't take the word "reforging" so literally when it comes to games. It's a very broad term used in item customization in most of its iterations. Does it match the proper use of the word exactly? Not necessarily all the time, no, but you essentially know what I and everyone means by using this term at this point in this game's development.
Of course you can't forge yourself a sword, and reforge it endlessly without it breaking. Metal can only be thinned out and hammered upon so much before it just becomes too brittle and snaps. This is where the whole "oh it's magic and you used magic materials etc. etc." thing comes in to play. (read: fantasy)
I doubt rarity will ever be able to be changed (since the rarity essentially dictates an item's values right now), but what you describe here is essentially what reforging will be, albeit a little more specific.
I see what you're saying here; you described it a bit better this time. But again, adding another gate to how many times an item can be altered is a bad design that would leave many people with a sour taste in their mouth when they got unlucky rerolling mods and used all of this "potential" up in the process.
Maybe a better idea, that I kind of actually like, would be to allow the rerolling of mods freely, but when it comes time to change their values, have a limited amount of "points" that can be allocated to any given stats. For instance:
Random item with mods you like:
+10% Attack Speed
+5% Critical Chance
+10% Critical Damage
You have X amount of points, based on the item's quality, to allocate between these values. So you could, say, add 10 points to Crit Chance, or 5 to Crit Chance and Damage, etc. I suppose Squarebit could add a way to increase the "allocation points" (or "potential", if that's what you want to call it at this point) of an item, but it should be near-impossible to do, require ludicrous materials, and/or maybe have a chance to break the item in the process.
That kind of design I could get behind. It's not an "increase everything to the maximum!" kind of thing, but a "make a choice here based on your current build", and could have the chance to break your item in the process.
Adding in that kind of risk would keep people playing in the sense that they'd have to have the item again, to try their luck again, if they truly wanted to "max it out".
Right, skills are going to be much more important than items in general in the coming days, but one can't argue with their power right now. For instance, the Frostlock 4 piece bonus... it is ridiculously powerful compared to the other class' (that I've seen so far). I believe what he wants to do is make effects like that a part of the skill tree revamp, rather than have them be a set bonus that you would essentially rely on for the rest of the game, no matter how far it went.
Because right now, as it stands, I cannot forsee ever replacing the Frostlock 4 piece bonus for any reason... and that makes that set far, far too powerful to be an item set, in my opinion. That kind of power is more for the "mastery" tree thing he was talking about, where the 4 piece set bonuses should be something else entirely.
I never did say that True Legendaries would only benefit a handful of builds/classes. I said that I think True Legendaries are able to have effects that can benefit any class (along with arbituary +x% damage somewhere...) in a general way as well have items that benefit just slightly more with specific builds/classes.
Some mods that benefit ANY class (off the top of my head):[/list]
True Legendaries that target specific builds wouldn't be so specific as you've would've thought I implied. They're only a bit (literally) more specific than general effects, however, enough for plenty of builds/classes to utilize.
Things like:
These are just slightly more specific effects and yet they would still be useful for most specs...
Yes... Much of what I was talking about here was literally straight out of my *** (to be quite honest, I don't know what drove me to this length...). Regardless, I still think it's a good idea that we don't change the item itself, however, we can augment/add to the items using "crafted mods" with the upcoming Enchanters. I know you wouldn't agree with me because we are talking in the context of the current game state, where I feel that some mods don't belong to certain equipment slots (e.g. thorns on Head and Warlock equipment and damage bonuses on boots... Also, waaay too many proc effects and those orbiting orbs feel sorta unneccessary in my opinion...) If the mod pool (and their values) for each equipment slot (and item rarity) were readjusted/redistributed you might have less complaints about finding bad mods on your items...
Well, I suppose that your understanding of what I was trying to get at is enough to say here. (Previous point covers this...). However, interestingly enough, bringing up allocation points for mods reminds me of the WoW items with skill trees (I've never played WoW by the way...).
(I'd rather he called it the Hero levels because it is quite fitting. This is just me of course...) I think that Squarebit might make a tier above Legendaries that would instead have these effects because Act 5 is yet to be worked on thus the "True Endgame" has yet to reveal itself (of which I might have ideas to suggest for)...