Is there a time limit in the game?

[tommie]

Like when you have to finish it and then it's game over? Or does it go on indefinitively until you've reached certain goals?

[ositodefelpa]

Diposting pertama kali oleh transolar:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jimmy James:

Time limits that end the game are pretty bad. I am going to pass on this for now.

Strange. Do you avoid reading a novel because it has a last page? Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption is an interactive novel. When you reach the end of the "book," it ends. Then you "read" it again in a different way, or you set it aside to come back to later. Unlike a paper novel, you'll find different things the next time you read/play.

I've never written a game without an ending. I do play some (Heroes of the Storm, for example), but they aren't story games. Of course, HotS does have an effective time limit; if you don't win in 20-30 minutes, the opponents will.

It's possible there's some misunderstanding about this "time limit" thing. Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption ends after 50 game days, but it might take you 10 hours or 100 hours to get there. Average seems to be about 25 hours, about four times as long as it took to play a Quest for Glory game. There's no time limit on game play, just an ending when you finish the story.

I think the point is that in many RPG games people expect the game to end when they choose. In other words, it finishes when they decide to go for that final battle, after they have finished doing everything else they wanted to do.

I appreciate that is not what you're trying to do with your game, and that is fine; you can design it how you want, and people can pay their money or not. But it is not the only way RPGs are designed.

From reading the description on the Store page, I don't think it's particularly clear that this is a 'fixed end time' interactive story, rather than a standard RPG in which the time for the end of the story is open ended and decided by the player. I didn't realise that myself.

Personally, I don't tend to like games with time pressure (I've had far to much of that in my working life to want to do it in my play time). However, I understand from other comments that the time pressure in the present game is actually quite gentle, in which case it may not be so much of a problem. Time will tell :-)

[Jimmy James]

Diposting pertama kali oleh transolar:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jimmy James:

Time limits that end the game are pretty bad. I am going to pass on this for now.

Strange. Do you avoid reading a novel because it has a last page? Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption is an interactive novel. When you reach the end of the "book," it ends. Then you "read" it again in a different way, or you set it aside to come back to later. Unlike a paper novel, you'll find different things the next time you read/play.

I've never written a game without an ending. I do play some (Heroes of the Storm, for example), but they aren't story games. Of course, HotS does have an effective time limit; if you don't win in 20-30 minutes, the opponents will.

It's possible there's some misunderstanding about this "time limit" thing. Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption ends after 50 game days, but it might take you 10 hours or 100 hours to get there. Average seems to be about 25 hours, about four times as long as it took to play a Quest for Glory game. There's no time limit on game play, just an ending when you finish the story.

Certainly not but what if the pages turned automatically before you were done reading them? This is what many of us think of when we hear time limits in games, thanks to a few games that had this in the past. When the time limit hits and a loss is triggered it's pretty annoying. It's a terrible mechanic for an RPG or adventure game where you should be encouraged to explore and delight in the world you are presented with.

I think there is definitely a misunderstanding regarding the time limit. What you are describing doesn't seem to be what some of us feared. I'm glad to know you're not forced to end a day before you want to.

[Fast Jimmy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jimmy James:

Diposting pertama kali oleh transolar:

Strange. Do you avoid reading a novel because it has a last page? Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption is an interactive novel. When you reach the end of the "book," it ends. Then you "read" it again in a different way, or you set it aside to come back to later. Unlike a paper novel, you'll find different things the next time you read/play.

I've never written a game without an ending. I do play some (Heroes of the Storm, for example), but they aren't story games. Of course, HotS does have an effective time limit; if you don't win in 20-30 minutes, the opponents will.

It's possible there's some misunderstanding about this "time limit" thing. Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption ends after 50 game days, but it might take you 10 hours or 100 hours to get there. Average seems to be about 25 hours, about four times as long as it took to play a Quest for Glory game. There's no time limit on game play, just an ending when you finish the story.

Certainly not but what if the pages turned automatically before you were done reading them? This is what many of us think of when we hear time limits in games, thanks to a few games that had this in the past. When the time limit hits and a loss is triggered it's pretty annoying. It's a terrible mechanic for an RPG or adventure game where you should be encouraged to explore and delight in the world you are presented with.

I think there is definitely a misunderstanding regarding the time limit. What you are describing doesn't seem to be what some of us feared. I'm glad to know you're not forced to end a day before you want to.

...well... that's not entirely accurate.

If Shawn is up at 1 AM and is trying to do something, he will say he needs to get in bed for class the next morning and he will go to sleep.

That being said, 95% of the time, the thing that Shawn was doing can be done the next day or night, or the night after that. And the few times when the progression of time is TRULY impactful, like a quest will be gone or something along those lines, the game does a VERY opaque job of making that as clear as possible... "IF THIS PROBLEM IS NOT SOLVED BY TOMORROW, THE SCHOOL MAY NEED TO BE SHUT DOWN!" is an example of such a warning (maybe not in all bold letters, but it may as well be).

[Jimmy James]

I can live with that. Going to give it a shot. I absolutely loved Hero's Quest and enjoyed the sequels. Thanks for the replies everyone.

EDIT:
So I tried it. I'm about 15 hours in and the timer is not punishing in the way I thought it would be; it's worse. It just sucks the fun out of the game. Why must I be in bed by 1 or 2am? I know you warned me but I didn't think it would be quite so problematic. Why do I get teleported to dinner no matter what I'm doing or where I am? Ripping the player out of something exciting to make them do menial tasks is about as bad as game design gets, which is a shame because the characters, setting, humor, etc., are wonderful.

[shade_mondas]

time limits can be a challenge, but only if they are RESONABLE! these are not they are not fun and are way to strict. the makers of this game, Lori and Corey should have loosened the reins to the players. at least then they could be fun, Quest for Glory had time limits too, but they allowed you to take in the sites and enjoy the game. this game does not! feels like my first semester in college, and that ♥♥♥!

[Anhaga]

Wow. I'm trying to figure out what you all see as reasonable time limits. Yes, the timing's a challenge in this, but that's *part of the game.* It also contributes very well to replayability. I'm on my third playthrough, FWIW, and plan to start my fourth immediately after I finish this one. So it's not a sandbox. That doesn't make it too restrictive. Go in with a good attitude, and you'll find that the time limits can be *fun*. Seriously. It's part of the game to see what you can manage to sneak around and how to make the limits work for you (it's much easier to get back from the far end of the Catacombs if Shawn is just transported to bed! :-D ).

[shade_mondas]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Anhaga:

Wow. I'm trying to figure out what you all see as reasonable time limits. Yes, the timing's a challenge in this, but that's *part of the game.* It also contributes very well to replayability. I'm on my third playthrough, FWIW, and plan to start my fourth immediately after I finish this one. So it's not a sandbox. That doesn't make it too restrictive. Go in with a good attitude, and you'll find that the time limits can be *fun*. Seriously. It's part of the game to see what you can manage to sneak around and how to make the limits work for you (it's much easier to get back from the far end of the Catacombs if Shawn is just transported to bed! :-D ).

transporting is a cheat. I honestly wish they would remove it if you want a real challenge and make it so he has to get places on time.

[shade_mondas]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jimmy James:

I can live with that. Going to give it a shot. I absolutely loved Hero's Quest and enjoyed the sequels. Thanks for the replies everyone.

EDIT:
So I tried it. I'm about 15 hours in and the timer is not punishing in the way I thought it would be; it's worse. It just sucks the fun out of the game. Why must I be in bed by 1 or 2am? I know you warned me but I didn't think it would be quite so problematic. Why do I get teleported to dinner no matter what I'm doing or where I am? Ripping the player out of something exciting to make them do menial tasks is about as bad as game design gets, which is a shame because the characters, setting, humor, etc., are wonderful.

yes the whole point of being a thief is staying up at odd hours trying to leave the Uneversity and explore in more "unlawful" fashion past 1 AM.

[FroBodine]

I appreciate that some folks love the time limits. But, I absolutely hate them, and wish this game didn't have them. I really wanted to play this game, but I don't want to be under time restrictions. I have enough of that in real life. I don't need that kind of pressure in my adventure games, where I'm supposed to be able to explore at my leisure.

[Syrris]

What's funny about all of this is that, among people who've played through the game, the more common complaint seems to be that they find themselves running out of things to do at various points.

[MaebeKnot]

I feel like the time limit here is very well done. I'm largely on the fence when it comes to time limits. If it is done right and makes the game better, then it's a win. I really enjoy Dead Rising series.... well I played the 1st and 2nd and enjoy the zombie part of it. What I didn't like was the time limits. There was to much pressure and I would miss pretty important things if I didn't use my time well. Using your time properly was a big chore if you wanted to see most things. In some cases you could only see all the content with repeat play, solely because of time management feature. Hell you could even game over/end the game early with a bad ending because you improperly managed time.

Most of us gamers have been trained on not having a time limit. Fallout 4 started out making the find your child seem important, especially with some early dialog options. Yet it didn't take long for the game and player completely forget about that goal. The player could play for years in game and it not ever matter.

Plenty of RPGs will play the "Oh you just made it in time" card. Always in the right place at the right time, regardless of what time the player gets there. After a few games it's super transparent and rather eye rolling. It's extra eye rolling in open world RPGs where the player as a lot of freedom to show up whenever they want.

It can be super refreshing when a game breaks those chains and makes specific things happen at specific times. It makes a lot of sense to have time sensitivity in games. Yet it needs to be done well including but not limited to, advising the player where and when to go places. Also to narrow the focus enough that it's easy to be at the right place at the right time.

Missing events in a RPGs isn't much different then having day/night cycles impacting game play. In the Long Dark it is harder to survive at night. In MMOs you can miss content and event because you didn't play at the right time in real life. Don't Starve has seasons. Some content and NPCs are specific to a season.

Is missing an event in an RPG and the event auto resolving that much different then player choice? If the player choices to not be there and instead do something else, that is a choice. The event should move forward and resolve in a specific way because the player was not there. This is really just another "player choice matters" path.

Hell there is even a genre of Time Management. Plently of people will not enjoy that genre, others will. It's no different then me not liking FPS games and I feel like any genre done as FPS suffers from this feature.

TLDR: If you can't enjoy the time management feature in this game, play something else. Cheers!

[shade_mondas]

Quest For Glory had the best time management system. this game makes you run. at least in Quest for Glory you could actually move at a pace based more on reality. I mean, c'mon climbing stairs takes 15 minutes? it takes 1-2 in a tower going from only 1 story to another. in real life! I could go from one building at my campus all the way down the street, to another, 5 minutes tops! And also, Shawn absolutely refuses to do things even before the food and sleep hour. this, to me is el'retardo. And why wimp out to bed at 1 why not stay up until 5 AM but then actually be penalised later in class(by the Headmaster). but in this game, no he just ignors it, aside from a sarcastic remark about using your bed instead of the classroom or whatever.. IF you got demerits to be a real thief or decided to play good classman, now that is REAL choice!

[shade_mondas]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Syrris:

What's funny about all of this is that, among people who've played through the game, the more common complaint seems to be that they find themselves running out of things to do at various points.

read a book, play solitair, practice the combat dummy walk the tight rope play video games LOL on those days. agiility is imporrtant to the rogues-eh disbarred bards.

[shade_mondas]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jimmy James:

I can live with that. Going to give it a shot. I absolutely loved Hero's Quest and enjoyed the sequels. Thanks for the replies everyone.

EDIT:
So I tried it. I'm about 15 hours in and the timer is not punishing in the way I thought it would be; it's worse. It just sucks the fun out of the game. Why must I be in bed by 1 or 2am? I know you warned me but I didn't think it would be quite so problematic. Why do I get teleported to dinner no matter what I'm doing or where I am? Ripping the player out of something exciting to make them do menial tasks is about as bad as game design gets, which is a shame because the characters, setting, humor, etc., are wonderful.

should have been called "Mage's Initiation" or "Doctror Who's Initiate Quest". I would llike the teleport removed. and some tasks not to be so long(namely stairs)

[Anhaga]

Diposting pertama kali oleh shade_mondas:

And also, Shawn absolutely refuses to do things even before the food and sleep hour. this, to me is el'retardo.

You're not picking the right things to try and do, Shade. If you've got just a few minutes before a "you'll be automatically moved" deadline, do things you *can* do, like talk to someone or practice one of the games (darts raises throwing, billiards raises agility, cards raises luck). The game will fit it in--I've practiced my card theory for half an hour at 9:55 pm many times (apparently Terk is late on those nights, because I do end up in my room at about 10:25! ) . You can also do 1 last thing in the practice room IF you start before 5:30 pm. Test the limits by varying what you try to do. As I said above, I'm about to start my 4th playthrough (just finished a Perfect Prowler, now I'm moving on to Bossa Nova), and I'm at the point where I can make the timing work for me.

Either way, if you don't do time limits, that's fine. Just be aware that if you're throwing around big statements like "the time limits ♥♥♥♥ and make the game impossible to enjoy," those of us who enjoy the game and like the challenge of working around the time limits are going to get a little twitchy, and try to explain to you why you're wrong.