My review post was removed

[Mason]

My full review of EC which was above the character limit in the normal review was "silently" removed/deleted, and I would very much like an answer as to why, either way expect me to write up a replacement review until either the steam forum mods give me a reason as to why not.

As I'm a paranoid individual I believe in back-ups, so here is the review below as well as a link to it on the official forums.


Official EC forums link: http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/warhammer-40-000-eternal-crusade-steam-review.50980/

h̶t̶t̶p̶:̶/̶/̶s̶t̶e̶a̶m̶c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶.̶c̶o̶m̶/̶a̶p̶p̶/̶3̶7̶5̶2̶3̶0̶/̶d̶i̶s̶c̶u̶s̶s̶i̶o̶n̶s̶/̶0̶/̶4̶5̶1̶8̶5̶1̶4̶7̶7̶8̶9̶0̶4̶1̶7̶5̶1̶4̶/̶
As of 2/11/2016 the review on steam was removed without notice​

As of 1/26/2016 in its current state I can't recommend Eternal Crusade despite my own wishes to promote it, although I'm sure this will be a fantastic game on release, this is a review for the current situations and issues with the game, without talking about roadmap or in development features.

Eternal Crusade is an 16 v 16 third person shooter/hack and slash based on the Warhammer 40k universe using Unreal 4 engine. The current and only game modes as of its early access and this review release are conquest with a rotation of 3 maps. Players can play similar two factions, the Space Marines and Chaos Marines, which each have several classes which in turn also have limited customizable loadouts based on a point system, as well as 2 unique classes per faction. Eternal Crusade atm of this review features two vehicles, a Rhino transport APC that a squad can spawn out of and carries a resupply crate, and a Predator tank. Eternal Crusade also has an incomplete/flawed above average melee combat system, with a health bar and a regenerating armor (health buffer) bar.

I'm sad to say but the current alpha state of the game is plagued by bugs, performance issues, gameplay/balance issues, and hit detection issues. The rule of thumb being you charge for it, you're ready for an honest review of all the problems, note that I'll try to be unbiased despite my love for the future of EC.

The most prevalent is performance. Performance seems to be terribly inconsistent with monstrous rigs running SLI titans and so forth struggling to stay at 60fps. Frames seem to plummet while taking damage or firing your weapon, just about any action. Currently the developers are pushing content and have stated multiple times that they will work on optimization on performance issues during the later beta. This may tie into hit detection being all over the place.

Another glaring issue is the horrible amount of damage effects both ingame as well as UI and camera shake, which is horrifically disorientating and leaves you with little ability to understand what's going on on your screen, much less navigate or retaliate. It's like having various colored sparklers shoved into your face while a massive earthquake is occurring. As well as the lighting effects, with a still prevalent awful chromatic aberration effect on one of the maps, and damage effects which darkens armor and makes enemy players annoying to identify quickly.

One the largest and most controversial problems is the melee system and melee balance in general, the developers wanted to move away from WH40k:SM and develop their own unique mechanics to further themselves from it. I'm quite glad they've decided to go their own route despite the difficulty in doing so, but nevertheless there are huge balance and gameplay issues that I can't ignore, or sugar coat for the user or the receiver, because it's unsatisfactory for both.

The melee system as of 1/26/2016 works as follows:

Melee is stamina based, to which you only lose stamina when either you dodge, connect a melee attack to melee clang, or your shield gets hit if you're using the ground assault class which has access to a storm shield.

Melee is often focused around a lock-on system that (should but often doesn't) locks onto the nearest hostile target allowing you to hopefully (but very often not due to the length of the animation) hit them with strikes as the camera follows them.

The attacks are:

Standard light swing which is a static horizontal swipe animation that locks you into a swing animation on the horizontal direction your camera is facing.

Charged swing which is a vertical swipe animation that locks you into a swing animation on the horizontal direction your camera is facing with increased damage and distance compared to the light swing with the cost of standing still to charge it.

Sprint strike which is a light swing executed whilst sprinting, which does less damage than the light swing but the animation is quicker.

A defensive bash which is used to counter light swings.

Exclusive ground pound attack used by the Assault class (Jetpacks) which stuns and damages enemies within the ground pound's range.


Light Swing > Charged Swing > Defensive Bash > Light Swing


The fundamental problems with melee is the hardlock/stunlock mentality that the developers have. Non Melee oriented classes in melee range were destroyed melee classes without anyway to retaliate, and to balance it out the developers created the defensive bash which lopsided everything, and instead of a clean slate we're stuck with forcing the cube in a circle shaped hole. Every melee attack in the game inconsistently initiates either a soft stagger or a very hard one-sided stun. So what often happens in melee is a one sided light swing lock until the target is dead. Defensive bash punishes using light swings by stunning the target who hit the defensive bash's wind up which as of 1/26/2016 is glitched to often drain all of the target's stamina either stunlocking them, or leaving them unable to dodge or swing back, basically dead. To counter defensive bash they must use a charged swing, which the user must stay in place to charge the attack, which is a static vertical swing easily dodged.

Melee is blatantly not designed for more than 1 v 1 and is filled with arbitrary rock-paper-scissors stun lock mechanics which fall apart in skirmishes that involve more than one player, in an attempt to mitigate this, some melee oriented classes get a buff which activates inconsistently on a successful strike which regenerates health, increases attack speed, and in some classes regenerates stamina, which in theory should make melee a bit more viable in fights that involve more than 1 enemy, which created a large amount of problems in its own without fundamentally solving the viability problem.

Situations occur where a melee user is trying to hit a player backpedaling and shooting. Due to the static animations it's simply a matter of backing up to avoid light swings, and dodging with gratuitous invincibility frames whenever a melee user is attempting a charged strike or a sprint strike. Defensive bash makes this quagmire all the worse as players can backpedal and shoot, then chain bashes for a free and easy kill.

The situation we have is due to melee being overpowered (and still is with some classes) and an awkward mechanic put in play. As either the melee user can't hit the target or instantly loses due to being defensive bashed, or the non melee oriented class gets stun locked. Either way neither side is satisfied, and both sides feel cheated.

Melee itself doesn't work on a large majority of terrain as the standard attack animation is a horizontal strike making it difficult to hit enemies that are crouched, on stairs/slopes, or both. There's also wall/object clangs where if you hit a static terrain object your character will have a melee stagger animation locking him for a good 2 or 3 seconds, which gets disgustingly annoying when using melee indoors or near a wall/rail. Vaulting also destroys melee oriented classes and enemy players can quickly vault over a long piece of cover which forces the player to either go around or vault over, which both results in getting shot.

Personally my biggest issue with melee is that objects that elevate you, or are large enough to prevent you from traversing (bigger than your foot) destroys melee in general as you either have to go around, or falling off these tiny objects puts you into a "landing" animation, and since melee attacks lock you into the animation you can find yourself lunging off balconies or going a few meters from less than waist-high cover. Some levels are annoyingly abundant with small ledge rocks sprinkled all over slopes making it awful to navigate, much less use melee.

As of this review the Ground-Pound attack used by the assault class (Jetpacks) will stun everyone with-in the area of effect and do damage. The assault class has 3 recharging bars jump jet bars, which gives them great horizontal and vertical movement. So what occurs is ground pound spamming which doesn't have a minimum altitude requirement, until you're either dead or stunned, in which case they either rinse and repeat or begin to melee you. Once again a one sided mechanic which can easily hardlock you. Another glaring issue is the assault class user's ability blatantly lets them ignore the current melee mechanics and jump jet out of being stunned or hit, as well as being able to lock-onto a player and horizontally jumpjet dash around to their back and get a free light swing, which can be chained. Some assault users don't bother with with melee and opt to use lock-on as well as the lock-on pistol and circle strafe shoot you until you're dead.

Although this game is in alpha and plans to release a lot more content, factions, weapons, PvE and other features the matter is that in it's current state the game is a 4/10, until such time as the devs undoubtedly add, address, and continue with their work, but this is a review on the current situation of the game as well as the largest problems that plague it. I will continue to add to this review as major updates are released for Eternal Crusade.

[AsheruSwiftwind.Ttv]

As far as I am aware no mods can mess with reviews here so that is something you will have to take up with steam. You said yourself its "above the character limit" and that might have been what caused it to be removed.

[Oku]

Nobody besides a valve employee can remove reviews, smart one.

[BalgaBear]

Spot on solid review though, highlights a lot of what the community is constantly talking about.

[The Shattered Grin]

No idea why it would be removed. Although you do insinuate things that are not true. You acknowledge in the end it's Alpha phase but you seem to not understand what an Alpha release is.

"Melee is blatantly not designed for more than 1 v 1 and is filled with arbitrary rock-paper-scissors stun lock mechanics which fall apart in skirmishes that involve more than one player, in an attempt to mitigate this, some melee oriented classes get a buff which activates inconsistently on a successful strike which regenerates health, increases attack speed, and in some classes regenerates stamina, which in theory should make melee a bit more viable in fights that involve more than 1 enemy, which created a large amount of problems in its own without fundamentally solving the viability problem."

Actually that is the result of Trinkets being added in for testing before they are available to be loaded ot in the customization screen. It was never meant to fix anything, Alpha is for testing things like this even if it isnt fun. It really sounds like you just did not do good in the melee skirmish. As for ground pound, just roll away you get an indicator of it comming at you.

"Although this game is in alpha and plans to release a lot more content, factions, weapons, PvE and other features the matter is that in it's current state the game is a 4/10, until such time as the devs undoubtedly add, address, and continue with their work, but this is a review on the current situation of the game as well as the largest problems that plague it. I will continue to add to this review as major updates are released for Eternal Crusade."

You make it sound like the game is dead. A patch is released each week making quite a few changes each time and the Devs are very active and responsive. There is a twtich live stream with the devs every Friday. As well as this most the issues you mention in the review are already being worked on. If you took any amount of time to check the actual forums (not steam) you would know all of this.

[Mason]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Asheru Swiftwind:

As far as I am aware no mods can mess with reviews here so that is something you will have to take up with steam. You said yourself its "above the character limit" and that might have been what caused it to be removed.

That's odd because it was a forum post, and I'm sure that steam wouldn't go through the effort of having their own mods for game forums.

[Mason]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Shattered Grin:

No idea why it would be removed. Although you do insinuate things that are not true. You acknowledge in the end it's Alpha phase but you seem to not understand what an Alpha release is.

"Melee is blatantly not designed for more than 1 v 1 and is filled with arbitrary rock-paper-scissors stun lock mechanics which fall apart in skirmishes that involve more than one player, in an attempt to mitigate this, some melee oriented classes get a buff which activates inconsistently on a successful strike which regenerates health, increases attack speed, and in some classes regenerates stamina, which in theory should make melee a bit more viable in fights that involve more than 1 enemy, which created a large amount of problems in its own without fundamentally solving the viability problem."

Actually that is the result of Trinkets being added in for testing before they are available to be loaded ot in the customization screen. It was never meant to fix anything, Alpha is for testing things like this even if it isnt fun. It really sounds like you just did not do good in the melee skirmish. As for ground pound, just roll away you get an indicator of it comming at you.

"Although this game is in alpha and plans to release a lot more content, factions, weapons, PvE and other features the matter is that in it's current state the game is a 4/10, until such time as the devs undoubtedly add, address, and continue with their work, but this is a review on the current situation of the game as well as the largest problems that plague it. I will continue to add to this review as major updates are released for Eternal Crusade."

You make it sound like the game is dead. A patch is released each week making quite a few changes each time and the Devs are very active and responsive. There is a twtich live stream with the devs every Friday. As well as this most the issues you mention in the review are already being worked on. If you took any amount of time to check the actual forums (not steam) you would know all of this.

First of all the inner GN in me: isn't*, out*, coming*, twitch*.

Everything that I've stated is my own personal view of the game as well as gameplay mechanics, despite how you came to interpret what I wrote which is EC currently is in an expected rough alpha state in which I point out and explain flaws of the game and why I can't suggest it barring the investment situation. Although I personally have few doubts about the game, even as I stated repeatedly in my own review that I would give an honest, unbiased look at the game.

I don't know how you managed to interpret my review as making the game sound dead, or how the devs aren't active, as I haven't missed a single friday stream since I've entered the captain founders access for $120, as well as purchasing a relic weapon bundle which was $140.

I would like to think that I have a realistic down-to-earth understanding of EC, like how the Lascannon mechanics should change to be more viable instead of a mostly AT/AV sniper.

Also remember that the point of alpha testing, the point of my review and criticism is to help with the development of the game, the worst thing you can do as a tester is close your eyes and ears to flaws and yell "It's an alpha".

I'm sure the devs are wearing their big boy pants and aren't offended by what I wrote in my review (please don't murder me Nathan), but take it as constructive criticism.

[KrysisMode]

Thought I typed alot. All I can think is you made a review so long it was auto pruned. Seriously that's alot of talky bitz!

Failing that you're kinda out of luck. Steam works in mysterious ways when it comes to reviews and culls them seemingly at random to make room for newer ones. I haven't figured out the logic behind it and probably won't ever figure it out.

[Pickupsticks]

"Melee is often focused around a lock-on system that locks onto the nearest hostile target allowing you to hopefully hit them with strikes as the camera follows them."

Thats just plain wrong, change you're bolter pistol and you dont get the "lock on" option anymore and can zoom. Not only that using "lock on" in my opinion is worse than aiming yourself. Moving back and letting them come to you in melee is one of many "melee strats" used.













.........nurf Stalker Bolter please.

[THE PILGRIM]

yah I use stalker bolter, it is the be all end all. It ends ALL. imo of course

[The Shattered Grin]

"Melee is blatantly not designed for more than 1 v 1 and is filled with arbitrary rock-paper-scissors stun lock mechanics which fall apart in skirmishes that involve more than one player, in an attempt to mitigate this, some melee oriented classes get a buff which activates inconsistently on a successful strike which regenerates health, increases attack speed, and in some classes regenerates stamina, which in theory should make melee a bit more viable in fights that involve more than 1 enemy, which created a large amount of problems in its own without fundamentally solving the viability problem."

Not an opinion, this is a misconception. The trinket effects were not added to mitigate mechanics it is just more testing most people dont know about. Eventually these trinkets will be load out items filling those tiny squares with lines through them we can not access yet giving you the option of these effects over others at the cost of load out points.

You start the review with

"As of 1/26/2016 in its current state I can't recommend Eternal Crusade despite my own wishes to promote it, although I'm sure this will be a fantastic game on release, this is a review for the current situations and issues with the game, without talking about roadmap or in development features."

You end it with

"Although this game is in alpha and plans to release a lot more content, factions, weapons, PvE and other features the matter is that in it's current state the game is a 4/10, until such time as the devs undoubtedly add, address, and continue with their work"

This insinuates to people comming into the game for the first time that they have stopped there work and need to continue at some point. You also Rate its current state as 4/10 even though you began with

" this is a review for the current situations and issues with the game, without talking about roadmap or in development features."

So people are left to assume as an early alpha its only 4/10 which is pretty far off. Some early alphas have literally nothing in them working save an hour worth of content.

You never state this is your personal opinion on the game, only that you will be unbiased which your overly lengthy review is riddled with a biased opinion. You even started the review by describing the game as a 16vs16 third person hack & slash shooter in its Alpha phase. Can you honestly say this is not misleading to anyone who has not played or read up on what this game really is?

You have typed to much opinion based information with tidbits of actually viable information that would pertain to someone interested in getting into this title. I can not even cover it all without getting an eye cramp. Thankfully others like PickupSticks has already seen some other points that are your extremely Biased view on the subject.


"Also remember that the point of alpha testing, the point of my review and criticism is to help with the development of the game, the worst thing you can do as a tester is close your eyes and ears to flaws and yell "It's an alpha". "

Thats just Absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you review did nothing but scare away potential alpha testers. I saw the comments on your original Review of people saying "Thanks I was going to buy this but not now". If you actually wanted to assist the Developers you would stick to the Eternal Crusade forums website and not steam. Like I and many others do when we want to help development. If you were doing anything more than playing your own flute for E Peen reasons you could have mentioned buying it now nets you 20K Rogue trader points, and alpha tester gear when it releases instead of acting like It's full price for alpha. Rogue trader points will probably be around 5$ for 5K and the base price will be 49.99 if it doesnt go up to $59.99 . Getting into a playable Alpha that has developer support, Gamesworkshop support and a New Partnership with Bandai Namco for 20$ is not a bad idea.

In the end maybe Steam powers that be did not like you hurting sales of an Alpha Product with a misguiding review.

[Stoicmango]

tldr

[BATPIMP]

This thread will be locked because it is a review.

Reviews of the game go in the REVIEW section. If you are suggesting changes and this is NOT a review I suggest you leave your message on the founders forum on the official site.

https://forum.eternalcrusade.com/forums/founders-lounge.55/