The Emperor is a gigantic idiot [HH Spoilers]

[Xostean]

So i've been thinking

In the second horus heresy book false god's Horus is shown visions in the warp to corrupt him to the side of chaos. In one scene he is taken to the gene vaults where the primarchs were created and after a fight (or slaughter) with the custodian guard, the emperor comes into the vault and asks horus "I know you?" and "you would destroy my great works?" then walks out letting the chaos gods steal the primarchs.

In a later book, Aurellian, Lorgar recounts his pilgrimage into the eye of terror to Magnus after Istvaan V. During his pilgrimage he meets his brother magnus as he is after the destruction of his home at the hands of russ. Magnus states that to him the meeting took place meer days before, while to Logar it happened 50 years prior.

So while time has no meaning in the warp, it actually took place, it was not a vision of whats to come or what has been.

Which means the "vision" Horus was shown in the warp about gene vaults actually took place while the emperor was cultivating the primarchs. So even though the Emperor saw Horus' face and confronted him briefly before the chaos gods stole the primarchs, he still willingly gave Horus the title of warmaster and supreme command of the Legions even though he saw what was happening 200 years prior.

GG The God Tard of Mankind

[Voodoo]

Its not only emperor who havent even told primarchs about workings of chaos which coupled with harder smacking of lorgar would help preventing heresy.

Guilliman the best tactician imperium had decided its bright idea to break legions into chapters with their own dogmas and quirks and sending them away without any real control hoping they wont go to chaos.

Imperium adopted lorgar book as empire religion, the primarch who was the 1st one to fall to chaos.

Not to mention finally that despite emperors hatred towards chaos entire astartes crusade is one huge worship of khorne nurgle and tzeentch.

[Schnittertm]

Originally posted by Voodoo:

Its not only emperor who havent even told primarchs about workings of chaos which coupled with harder smacking of lorgar would help preventing heresy.

Guilliman the best tactician imperium had decided its bright idea to break legions into chapters with their own dogmas and quirks and sending them away without any real control hoping they wont go to chaos.

Imperium adopted lorgar book as empire religion, the primarch who was the 1st one to fall to chaos.

Not to mention finally that despite emperors hatred towards chaos entire astartes crusade is one huge worship of khorne nurgle and tzeentch.

When Chaos gods show you a vision it might not be entirely true, especially when all four of them are involved, they want to achieve a certain goal and one of them is Tzeentch, that knows how to twist the truth in ways that the truth itself won't realize it has been twisted. I am still of the opinion that the Chaos gods showed Horus the event in the way that they wanted him to see it.

Guillimans idea of breaking up the remaining legions into chapters was a suggestion to prevent another Horus Heresy event in the Imperium and as such was at least a fairly sensible and tactically sound idea, considering that even the strenght of one full chapter is still said to be enough to take most planets on their own. Space Marines are also still one of the only organizations in the Imperium that can do an Exterminatus on planets considered doomed.

Besides, this decision was not accepted unanimously, with the Space Wolves outright rejecting it. The other thing here is, that many chapters that share the same gene seed still have similar rituals and even ties to each other. This can be seen in the way that Dante was able to call in almost all Blood Angels successor chapters in the defense of Baal from combined assaults by Chaos and the Tyranids.

The Imperium did accept the Imperial Creed, but it was either the first version of the Book or Lorgar that did praise the Emperor or it was, as is the case with, for example, the bible, sanitized before being made the offical holy book and religion of the Imperium.

Every sort of strife seems to strenghten the Chaos gods at first, however, if the Emperor had succeeded to get all humans into one Imperium, with one rule, wars would have been at a minimum, which meant "Eff you, Khorne". If they'd have found a full set of STC (the Imperium might actually have several, but not realize it -> see Priests of Mars) they might even have gotten access to the Panacea, meaning "No more sickness for you, Nurgle, :P". Also a stable Imperium would have set change to a minimum, which Tzeentch wouldn't have liked. Finally, keeping excesses down would have controlled Slaanesh. Furthermore, had he been able to finish his own webway project, then the Emperor would have been able to transfer troops in much the same way as the Eldar do now and would not have needed to use the warp.

The Emperor certainly should have handled some of his sons a bit differently though and should have informed at least them of the possibilities of Chaos possession and such, maybe with the allowance to tell other high ranking Astartes (Captains or Veterans) of such and to try to strife for at least a modicum of austerity. The other thing he could have done, is to train Astartes also in the way to lead people and in which state to leave compliant planets. In this case Guilliman actually did the best job, since he made sure that a stable government and society were left on each planet he led to compliance. He migth not have been the best tactician or warrior, but he certainly was the best public servant. Planets with happy populations and working economies are just much more productive than planets overrun by Angrons World Eaters, which often aren't really productive at all anymore.

[Voodoo]

Thats why emperor should have actually told primarchs about chaos and lorgar should be smacked to the point where he believes in humans and nothing else.

Idea while decent at 1st glance is just stupid when you consider how vast is imperium and how hard will it be to track single marine chapter and you already have examples of black templars having more than 1000 marines and they themselves have no idea how many are there. If they went out of control then they would have a nice rampage all over imperium.

And still imperial creed is a religion that goes against every teaching of emperor with maybe the exception of hatred toward xenos.

Gangers, beurocracy, famine. Entire hive cities beg for chaos worship and this would require better management than high lords of terra. Conquest isnt merely war, conquest expands territory to the point where you cant control them effectively.

[bozo69pd]

I think the Emperor foresaw all of this, and accepted it. It was the only noble way he could devour thousands of souls a day to slowly become a god. He is probably just waiting for the final war where all the primarchs come back and Abaddon is at the gates to stand up and go full God mode.

[Nibs]

Let's not forget that the Cabal convinced Alpha Legion to join the heretics by showing them that if the Heresy /didn't/ happen, it would be even worse for the galaxy. The Heresy was actually the lesser of 2 evils.

[Assblaster]

Mon-keigh doing stupid things.

How quaint :^)

[Xostean]

Originally posted by Voodoo:

Thats why emperor should have actually told primarchs about chaos

easily his biggest blunder for sure

[Kaden Fox]

well the The Emperor wasnt just a gigantic idiot he was an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, some of the leigons that turned traitor his treatment of their primarchs was a major contribitiuting factor.

this are just the cut down-simplified version.

Angron- when the emperor found him he was the leader of a sparticus style gladiator uprising/ escape. on the eve of the "final" battle the emperor teleported him away, leaving Angron helpless to watch his friends and comrads be slaughtered.

Horus- it seems to change with every book regaurding him, but at the base was the emperor leving the frontline to work on his totaly secret imperial webway project, the whole council of terra taking charge of running the empire in his stead rather than the primachs and yeah all the secerets he kept from his frav son.

Magnus the Red- a bit of a grey area here, though he and his legon was still practicing sorcery after the Nikaea debate, he used it to warn the emperor about horus' plans of heresy. Enraged because it flooded the imperial webway with deamons, the emperor did not listen to Magnus' warning and banished him from his presence and sent the space wolves to destroy their planet forcing them to side with those he tried to stop.

and now my personal fav: Lorgar- he was hyper religus to begin with and treated his father like a god. because his legion's prgress was slow, expensive and one of the main goals of the Great Crusade was to free Humanity from the ignorance of religion, told him off, destroyed his world-building project on Monarchia and forced lorgar and his entire legion to kneel before him, humiliating the primarch. its no suprise when Kor Phaeron and Erebus, his top lieutenants, whispered to him of the great Chaos gods: beings that welcomed, even demanded zealous worship and devotion he gladly jumped ship