Pros and cons of the Space Marines

[Lord Inquisitor Von Izraphel]

I am actualy a level 4 LSM and i would like to confront the gear between this faction and the others.

Primary light weapons
+ LSM have:
-Bolter (5.5 shots per sec, 100 meters, 30 optimal, damage 38/28, DPS 209/154 ),
-Plasma,
-Meltagun,
-Gravgun,
-Stormbolter
-Stalker (sniper rifle)

+ CSM have the SAME weapons except the Grav and the Stalker

+ ORKS have:
-Shoota (less optimal range: 20 m,an higher fire rate:8 shots per sec ,bigger mag :60 instead of 30, plus,slightly higher recoil, damage 28/19 DPS 224/152),
-Big Shoota
- Rockets ( rocket launcher)
N.B. LSM Bolter modded with cqc barrel get the same optimal range,increase dps to 232

+ ELDAR have:
-Shurikans (minor damage :20/13 , and minor range:80 m, optimal 12m, but almost totally lack of recoil, 55 mags, and very high fire speed 750rpm 12.5 shots per sec)consist in a DPS 250/162),
-Twin Linked Shurikans;
-Fusion Rifle (the Fire Dragons only) that is identic to a Marine`s Meltagun


Knives
- LSM,CSM and ORKS have 79 fast damage, 134 heavy , 100 penetration
-ELDAR: 94 fast, 160 heavy , 100 penetration (120 the unique one droppable)
N.B. The LSM Mercy Stroke Narthecium (RTC shop only),and the Wolf Priest`s Nartecium has the same stats of the ELDAR KNIFE, with poison
N.B.B. The Ork Painboy melee weapon also has the same damage as the Eldar Knife (but again with poison).

Melee Weapons
- Chainsaw Swords (LSM and CSM),
- Psy Swords (CSM),
-Warlok Sword (ELDARS)
-Choppas (ORKS)
Those items have all the same stats 100 fast, 170 heavy, 100 penetration

N.B. Psy increase the penetration and damage after unlocking in the "Advancements" a trait
(Force is a spell that can be equipped by warlocks and sorcerers, taking their offensive / secondary power slot which temporarily, and at the cost of warp charge, increases their weapons damage. It is not a bonus that is passively gained simply by being unlocked.)

- Scorpion`s chainsaw sword (ELDAR) do 113 fast dam, 192 heavy, 100 pen
- Banshee start with a powered sword 113 fast,192 heavy,120 pen (and it is the strongest powered sword among all the factions)
- Warlocks unlock Croneblade( +25 Psy Charge but less damage) - no precise data-
N.B The LSM`s Wolf Priest of the Space Wolves, start with a Powered Mace

-LSM factions can even use powered swords,powmauls, axes, power fists (more damage but slower)

-CSM get Force Axes, Chain Axes

-ORKS haz the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of melee weaponz like non-powered mauls, choppas and chain choppas statistically the same

Shields
Only LSM (100 armor) and ORKS (60)


Secondary Weapons
+LSM have:
-Bolters,
-Plama
-Grav handgun (inflict slow 35% on infantry, 50% on vehicles)

+ CSM have:
-Bolters
-Plasma handgun

+ ORKS have:
-a semiautomatic pistol (dakka slugga),
-an automatic (zip slugga, same RPM of an ELDAR rifle),
-a revolver (six-shotta),
-a pocket Rocket Launcher ,
-a Painboy`s only weapon that inflict ranged poison

+ ELDAR:can equip:
- Shurikan pistols
- a pocket Fusion Pistol (same damage of the LSM-CSM Melta Primary weapon but with a range of 10 meters instead of 20)

Debuffing Weapons
+ LSM have:
-Melta rifle (inflict Melting/Burning debuff 2 heat with low range: 15m),
--melta pistol
--- melta Cannons (inflict Melting/Burning debuff 3 range: 30m),
-Grav rifle (slow 35% infantry/ 50% vehicles)
-- grav pistol (same of rifle)
--- grav Cannon (cannon slow 35% / 75% ),
-Servo Skull (increase damage dealt to enemies in a small area,replace granade),
N.B. poison attachment for Apothecaries` Narthecium

+ CSM have:
-Sorcerer`s warp magic debuffes (increase damage dealt to an enemy like servo skull),
- Sorcerer`s poison spell,
-Bile Granade
-Necrotic Chainsaw Swords,
-Abbadon Grace (RTC only, automatic cannon up to 100m, inflict heat 5 burning),
-Plague Knife

+ ORKS have:
- Painboy`s pistol (poison)
- Painboy`s melee weapon (poison 33)
- poison granade
- burning choppa
-Deffgun Napalm

+ ELDARS have :
- sunrifle: (a general "blinding effect")
-Fusion Rifle (melting/burning effect)
-- Fusion Pistol
- warloks`powers which buff allies/debuff enemies (no precise data at the moment)

AOE weapons (correction needed)
+LSM can throw :
- standard granade,
-servo skulls (read above),
- melta bomb (gonna place it,not throw away),
- healing granades (less Cooldown and less duration)/apotechary signal (more duration but long cooldwon)
-Crack granades (bundle of 2)

+ CSM have:
-standard granades,
-melta granades,
-necrotic granades
-crack granade(single)
-Warp Spell (Diamond Bolt) remote controlled

+ ORKS have:
-standard granades
-incendiary granades throwed by the Deffgun,
-poison granade
-an healing signal (slighty bigger than the apotechary`s one)

+ ELDAR have:
-Plasma Granades (up to 2),
- a Reaper Launcher (Missile remote controlled)
- a granade launcher (Tempest Launcher)


Stats
-LSM 200 hp - 100 armor (140 ground assault,75 apotechary and jetpack) - 100 toughness
-CSM same of LSM
-ORKS 225 hp - 100 armor (75 stormboy, 120 skugga, 50 painboy) - 100 toughness
-ELDAR 150 hp - armor 100 (scorpion), 80 (Banshee), 75 (Dire avenger), 115 (Fire Dragon),135 (Dark Reaper),
75 (the other two)

Conclusions TLDR
1) Eldar`s flying unit can reach places inaccessible buy the other factions`s flying units due to the stationary fly
Beside they can equip a ranged rifle weapon (other factions go melee)
2) Eldar and ORKS troops transport can damage vehicles (marines cannot)
3)using a troop transport, an Eldar pilot can shoots a second cannon, aiding the one controlling the turret, beside they are very agile
N.B. they are the only vehicles with a FRONTAL WEAKSPOT and they only have 60 % HP compared to the Rhino
4) Every chapter should have a different peculiarity like the Space Wolves have
- and every subfaction- (quotation needed)

And finally: what is the peculiarity of the LSM? Shouldn`t we excel in something like the other factions do? - This sentence carry most of the comments below-

Please give me your opinion and help me understand (baka xenos!)

My thanks to AbyssalGambler for aiding me writing this article, and for playing with me on the battlefield

official forum thread http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/pros-and-cons-of-the-space-marines.65086/

[Voodoo]

引用自 The Superjew：

Considering the point of the game is to get into a specific area and capture/defend that area, area denial is a hugely important thing. Drop a Servo Skull in a good, hard-to-see position over/near a point and it's amazingly good.

that area is cramped space where you can hide behind wall and safely destroy the skull without being shot at.

Ppl see when they are being debuffed and i dont find it particulary hard to find the skull.

[Super-XIX]

Good, because the Servo Skull should not be a flat 30% damage taken increase debuff with no counter whatsoever. The point remains that, in a firefight, anybody focusing on killing the Servo Skull instead of killing enemy targets is likely to either get murdered while his attention is elsewhere (30% faster!) or not assisting his teammates in killing the people who are trying to kill them back.

I am, of course, NOT saying that the Servo Skull is OP. I am saying that is a stupid good tool at the their disposal. The fact that so many LSM whine and cry about having worse weapons and gear is laughable to me, because it's just not true. And I say this as someone with a level 5 LSM character who cannot comprehend why nobody wants to work together or actually make use of the factions' best tools.

[Please Be Nice To Me]

You've calculated Eldar DPS, sure, but have you ever actually used a Shuriken weapon? The spread on the sidearm and the Avenger catapult is criminal.

You're also missing the stats for the Croneblade, a weapon that almost every Warlock who gets it will use, because +25 Psy Charge is easily outweighed by the damage loss.

[Ishan451]

引用自 The Superjew：

And I say this as someone with a level 5 LSM character who cannot comprehend why nobody wants to work together

Exactly my experience. LSM have all these cool toys, and the gods help us if they ever discover what teamwork is... because they've been buffed so much, because they do not understand the basic concept of teamwork, that they'd steamroll everyone if they ever did.

引用自 {UUUU} Sokarera Grand Wizard：

You've calculated Eldar DPS, sure, but have you ever actually used a Shuriken weapon?

The ASC might have a higher DPS than the Bolter, but the simple fact that the SpaceMarine wielding it has way more Health and Armor means that the TTK of the Bolter is way shorter than the TTK of the ASC.

You can argue with DPS all you want on that ASC... but since we are not starting out with the same health, armor and toughness values.. the DPS on its own is a meaningless stat, because its not used against similar targets.

[Starbreaker Zed]

LSM have the best support hands down.

*drops mic*

[FieserMoep]

引用自 Ishan451：

Or the fact of the tiny heal grenades that can be hidden in geometry. Or the only Sniper Rifle in the game, which conveniently is carried by Tactical Marines and can 1-2 shot people

As much as I love the stalker, 1-2 is the VERY optimal scenario.

[Voodoo]

引用自 FieserMoep：

引用自 Ishan451：

Or the fact of the tiny heal grenades that can be hidden in geometry. Or the only Sniper Rifle in the game, which conveniently is carried by Tactical Marines and can 1-2 shot people

As much as I love the stalker, 1-2 is the VERY optimal scenario.

in what scenario it can 1 shot?? even squishiest eldar buid will require 2 headshots and every decent build on csm and orks will soak 3-4

[Lord Inquisitor Von Izraphel]

引用自 Voodoo：

引用自 FieserMoep：

As much as I love the stalker, 1-2 is the VERY optimal scenario.

in what scenario it can 1 shot?? even squishiest eldar buid will require 2 headshots and every decent build on csm and orks will soak 3-4

Sad but true

[FieserMoep]

I think the squieshiest eldar can, at optimal range, be oneshot in the head.
3-4 is the regular amount though in actual gameplay.

[Mute]

You're forgetting the SM sniper rifle the only sniper rifle in the game currently. Also they have the best support. Eldar weapons have NO scopes (that I know of). Also you are forgetting armor and toughness.

[Gralzeim]

引用自 Mute：

You're forgetting the SM sniper rifle the only sniper rifle in the game currently. Also they have the best support. Eldar weapons have NO scopes (that I know of). Also you are forgetting armor and toughness.

Pretty sure there's a Dire Avenger shuriken catapult for RTC that has a scope, but given that it can't be modded and has a much higher LP cost...no thanks.

Eldar will be getting a sniper rifle at some point, but it will be in the form of the Ranger/Pathfinder elite class (which may need to be purchased before it can be used). Meanwhile, Space Marines have Stalker bolters now. Usable by any Tactical marine.


Anyway, people who think Space Marines don't have the largest variety of tools and the most flexibility in loadouts are delusional. Blah blah blah, on paper this xenos weapon slightly outperforms the bolter! Ignoring real world conditions and the health/armor/toughness values of those using them and other variables.



I am not calling for nerfs! I'm just saying, Space Marines are in a good spot, and the other factions need to be brought up to that level, with more loadout options.

But let's be honest, we all know the poster boys will always have more stuff than everyone else. xD