Is the rogue just a worse version of the ninja?

[Redguard]

Any opinions? So far it just seems to be the case.

[Lord Hainz]

Ninja is good with melee and ranged(relatively)

Rogue is pure ranged, he has sword only for building his stealth in the beggining of run

[LadstonFelisGaming]

Rogue is more ranged and support with the starting points in alchemy and tinkering. Ninja is more melee DPS with higher sneak and sword skill.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by LadstonFelisGaming:

Rogue is more ranged and support with the starting points in alchemy and tinkering. Ninja is more melee DPS with higher sneak and sword skill.

Ah. So ... rogue may be more catered to multiplayer play. That makes sense.

I didn't think rogue was more focused on ranged than ninja because ninja starts with throwing knives, and they're highly effective. Rogue's shortbow (in tandem with the knockback quiver) is fairly effective, but not so much as the throwing knives, imo.

Unless of course there's just more for me to learn.

[LadstonFelisGaming]

Originally posted by Redguard:

Originally posted by LadstonFelisGaming:

Rogue is more ranged and support with the starting points in alchemy and tinkering. Ninja is more melee DPS with higher sneak and sword skill.

Ah. So ... rogue may be more catered to multiplayer play. That makes sense.

I didn't think rogue was more focused on ranged than ninja because ninja starts with throwing knives, and they're highly effective. Rogue's shortbow (in tandem with the knockback quiver) is fairly effective, but not so much as the throwing knives, imo.

Unless of course there's just more for me to learn.

The rogue starts with a hood that allows ranged attacks to get backstabs whereas iirc the ninja’s hood focuses more on melee backstabs.

That being said, your point is not far off. The ninja specializes in lethal single strikes to end battles before they begin whereas the rogue is more proficient in taking advantage of enemies that are distracted or otherwise debilitated. The points in alchemy and tinkering lend themselves to that style by allowing a rogue to brew status potions that can poison, confuse, blind, or paralyze targets or building proper traps and decoys to create as many openings for backstabs as possible. The tinkering also comes with the added bonus of allowing the rogue to bolster their bow attacks with special ammo collected by disarming arrow traps.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by LadstonFelisGaming:

Originally posted by Redguard:

Ah. So ... rogue may be more catered to multiplayer play. That makes sense.

I didn't think rogue was more focused on ranged than ninja because ninja starts with throwing knives, and they're highly effective. Rogue's shortbow (in tandem with the knockback quiver) is fairly effective, but not so much as the throwing knives, imo.

Unless of course there's just more for me to learn.

The rogue starts with a hood that allows ranged attacks to get backstabs whereas iirc the ninja’s hood focuses more on melee backstabs.

That being said, your point is not far off. The ninja specializes in lethal single strikes to end battles before they begin whereas the rogue is more proficient in taking advantage of enemies that are distracted or otherwise debilitated. The points in alchemy and tinkering lend themselves to that style by allowing a rogue to brew status potions that can poison, confuse, blind, or paralyze targets or building proper traps and decoys to create as many openings for backstabs as possible. The tinkering also comes with the added bonus of allowing the rogue to bolster their bow attacks with special ammo collected by disarming arrow traps.

Well, thanks for the education. Glad I came to the forums.

I welcome all other comments and opinions.

[Sly-Scale]

The Rogue's +40 Tinkering isn't just for picking locks and collecting arrows. If you happen to get yourself a Tinkering Kit from one of the shopkeepers, you'll unlock a whole other world of game mechanics to enjoy. Sure, everyone else can also get into Tinkering, but the headstart 40 levels means even a late start won't be awkward.

The only class who does Tinkering better than the Rogue is the Mechanist... and a floor-3 shopkeep can erase that difference.

[mistersneak]

For me, I love how well rounded the rogue is. True to a D&D style legacy, he's a "skill monkey". Second best in a ton of categories, giving him a ton of opportunities to adapt to whatever the dungeon provides, while his great stealth lets him always approach a problem strategically. His good appraisal means that upgrading gear and working with shops will be fruitful compared to most.
But I think his combo of skills uniquely shines as an archer. A tough time in the mines due to skeletons, but once you hit the Swamps, he has better access to ammo than any class thanks to picking arrow traps.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by mistersneak:

For me, I love how well rounded the rogue is. True to a D&D style legacy, he's a "skill monkey". Second best in a ton of categories, giving him a ton of opportunities to adapt to whatever the dungeon provides, while his great stealth lets him always approach a problem strategically. His good appraisal means that upgrading gear and working with shops will be fruitful compared to most.
But I think his combo of skills uniquely shines as an archer. A tough time in the mines due to skeletons, but once you hit the Swamps, he has better access to ammo than any class thanks to picking arrow traps.

I've only made it to the swamps once, as the ninja ironically.

Well, tinkering. I thought that tutorial was pretty nifty, so maybe I'd like rogue after all given a better approach.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by Redguard:

Originally posted by mistersneak:

For me, I love how well rounded the rogue is. True to a D&D style legacy, he's a "skill monkey". Second best in a ton of categories, giving him a ton of opportunities to adapt to whatever the dungeon provides, while his great stealth lets him always approach a problem strategically. His good appraisal means that upgrading gear and working with shops will be fruitful compared to most.
But I think his combo of skills uniquely shines as an archer. A tough time in the mines due to skeletons, but once you hit the Swamps, he has better access to ammo than any class thanks to picking arrow traps.

I've only made it to the swamps once, as the ninja - and died by arrow trap, ironically.

Well, tinkering. I thought that tutorial was pretty nifty, so maybe I'd like rogue after all given a better approach.

[MightyLad]

ninja is much more combat focused, while rogue is more utility oriented.

ninja focuses in ending fights before they start, while requiring you to spread your fairly limited starter supplies thin in order to surpass the early game. while your daggers will handle head on fights, you still only have the five, and are encouraged to avoid crowded areas. practice your combat skills, seek more dependable (or at least solid) gear, and you should be fairly well set once you level a bit and surpass the early game.

rogue demands a more tedious approach, and while you will have to play more carefully, you immediately have the skills to handle just about every job that most other classes cant. your bow and sword wont give out on you too soon, so you can afford to play slower by chipping away at enemys at a range until they are safe to backstab in melee. pick your fights strategically and try to get your hands on an alembic or tinkering kit, with a bit of practice you can handle just about anything the game throws at you!

[OnTheLastCastle]

Wait, how do I pick an arrow trap? Is this rogue exclusive or something? I honestly never do bows because I rarely find ammo, but if I can stockpile in the swamp, I’d go try it.

Rogue seemed to have a tough start even with the bow vs the ninja where the throwing weapon is so good. Plus bows are just nothing to a skeleton it seems.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by OnTheLastCastle:

Wait, how do I pick an arrow trap? Is this rogue exclusive or something? I honestly never do bows because I rarely find ammo, but if I can stockpile in the swamp, I’d go try it.

Rogue seemed to have a tough start even with the bow vs the ninja where the throwing weapon is so good. Plus bows are just nothing to a skeleton it seems.

I started this post because I had the exact same thoughts! lol

I played a little rogue last night and actually made some progress. The key is patience and playing in the dark, I think. Keep your distance, keep going for shots in the back, and then sneak away, and after a few steps, skeletons stop chassing. Rinse, repeat until they get weak enough to actually backstab. Or, backstab to weaken, switch to bow until near death, etc.

At least, that's what's been working for me while trying to find a shopkeeper so I can tinker. Did it once, bought the tinkering box ... just to be killed by the Minotaur.

Also, I think you pick arrow traps with the lockpick.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by MightyLad:

ninja is much more combat focused, while rogue is more utility oriented.

ninja focuses in ending fights before they start, while requiring you to spread your fairly limited starter supplies thin in order to surpass the early game. while your daggers will handle head on fights, you still only have the five, and are encouraged to avoid crowded areas. practice your combat skills, seek more dependable (or at least solid) gear, and you should be fairly well set once you level a bit and surpass the early game.

rogue demands a more tedious approach, and while you will have to play more carefully, you immediately have the skills to handle just about every job that most other classes cant. your bow and sword wont give out on you too soon, so you can afford to play slower by chipping away at enemys at a range until they are safe to backstab in melee. pick your fights strategically and try to get your hands on an alembic or tinkering kit, with a bit of practice you can handle just about anything the game throws at you!

Basically, I took this approach :)

[LadstonFelisGaming]

Originally posted by OnTheLastCastle:

Wait, how do I pick an arrow trap? Is this rogue exclusive or something? I honestly never do bows because I rarely find ammo, but if I can stockpile in the swamp, I’d go try it.

Rogue seemed to have a tough start even with the bow vs the ninja where the throwing weapon is so good. Plus bows are just nothing to a skeleton it seems.

To use a lockpick, you equip it like a weapon and “attack” with it. Doing it on arrow traps has a chance to disarm them based on your tinkering skill. A successful disarm will cause the trap to dump its remaining ammo on the ground in front of it.

Beware, though: a failed disarm will result in you getting shot. Remove any back items you have before attempting on any traps with fire arrows.

[Redguard]

Originally posted by LadstonFelisGaming:

Originally posted by OnTheLastCastle:

Wait, how do I pick an arrow trap? Is this rogue exclusive or something? I honestly never do bows because I rarely find ammo, but if I can stockpile in the swamp, I’d go try it.

Rogue seemed to have a tough start even with the bow vs the ninja where the throwing weapon is so good. Plus bows are just nothing to a skeleton it seems.

To use a lockpick, you equip it like a weapon and “attack” with it. Doing it on arrow traps has a chance to disarm them based on your tinkering skill. A successful disarm will cause the trap to dump its remaining ammo on the ground in front of it.

Beware, though: a failed disarm will result in you getting shot. Remove any back items you have before attempting on any traps with fire arrows.

back items?