Is there a way to turn off the Minotaur?

[LordBlade]

Basically I hate having this "forced rush" aspect to the game.

[Len's]

unthick the minotaur square
in option

[LordBlade]

Sorry, haven't played since one of the early betas. lol
Just bought it today cause of the sale, but haven't jumped in yet. :p

[Len's]

no need to be sorry , you asking a question and i glady answer it . you can thick of minotaur,trap.hunger.cheat both single and multiplayer..

[Losername]

I wonder how many people would demand an option to turn off the timer in Super Mario Brothers if the online gaming community existed in 1985. ;p

I don't hold anything against you if you disable minotaurs in Barony, but I do genuinely believe that the game is more fun when they are left on. Sometimes it's fun to be forced to choose between two non-ideal alternatives: in this case, rushing through a level and missing some of the loot, or staying longer and risking a confrontation with the minotaur. Honestly, part of the game's sense of progression revolves around becoming strong enough to mitigate the minotaur threat entirely. So, I feel like you're weakening your experience a bit by disabling the minotaur, but if you enjoy the game more that way, I don't want to invalidate that... just show you a bit of what you're missing, perhaps. :)

[LordBlade]

I've never liked the "coming death" approach to giving players choices. I would rather die because I did something stupid, not because I took too long on a level. I'd prefer if I died from hunger because I took too long exploring every nook and cranny and ran out of food, rather than some super monster coming to smash me for deciding to spend more time exploring.

As for the timers in Mario, I don't think that's really comparable. I mean, I've played the crap out of the Mario games, and I don't think I have ever had a problem with time on a level. They're just not that long, so unless you're just standing around doing nothing, you shouldn't really run out of time.

I play a ton of Roguelikes, I have since the original Rogue was released (beat it on my third attempt back in the day). The choices those games give you, where you weigh the pros and cons of what to do (exploring at the risk or starvation of facing an enemy you can't handle) or rushing because of lack of food or trying to get deeper for better loot (and facing monsters you might not be ready for, or again not having enough food because you didn't gather enough on the way down). That's what I enjoy. When I have this "timer" I have over my head, I don't really get to enjoy the game nearly as much, because it simply becomes "outrun the danger" instead of "explore or move on".

I can definitely understand why some people would enjoy such a feature. But it's definitely not for me.

Although I also think part of the problem (at least from when I played before) was with how the Minotaur worked. Basically charging straight at the player, right through walls and everything. If it worked more like a normal monster, and you could play cat and mouse with it, trying to explore what you could while staying hidden... that would probably make it a far more interesting feature. But the "charging death" just kind of kills it.

[Losername]

I would rather die because I did something stupid, not because I took too long on a level.

What is it about spending too much time on level that's not necessarily stupid? :)

It's very possible to survive a minotaur attack after he has spawned -- part of it also comes down to your ability to plan for keeping the exit within a reachable distance after a spawn, or taking advantage of special equipment that lets you avoid him entirely, etc.

Agreed that Mario's timers are generally much more generous than Barony, but it is exactly the same design in principle, and I'm sure people have raged just as hard when the timer kills them in Mario vs. the minotaur killing people in Barony.

[LordBlade]

Originally posted by SheridanR:

What is it about spending too much time on level that's not necessarily stupid? :)

Well, in general when playing a Roguelike, food is the main "timer" you have to deal with. The other main threat comes from the enemies and traps you face, and your readiness to deal with them.

Spending a lot of time on a level might snag you a few extra points of XP, or maybe a useful piece of gear. Or it might get you nothing and basically just be wasting your food. And that risk and reward system is one of the things that draws me to the games.

[The Slayer]

I agree with several of the above, deciding to waste food or not on a level should really be the timer. Not some external time limit that makes no sense. Is the minotaur just waiting in his room watching an egg timer? Why is there even journals in the game if we can't take more time. Mario doesn't have to pick up loot and kill enemies to give him better chances in later levels so there isn't much of a reason to look around. You can find most power up items in mario by just checking blocks on the way to the exit. It's a terrible comparison. At least there is an option now. I might give it another shot.

[mistersneak]

For me, the Minotaur makes you approach the level differently - requiring you to shake up your routine in exploring. Routine is not good for a roguelike actually, as it gets boring! I hope this sheds light on why we think the Minotaur is good for the game. It's not important that you agree with us, but it is important that you know we believe it serves a valid purpose, because we do not add things willy-nilly without thinking about their impact on the experience. We want our community to know that. But as many have said, you are welcome to turn it off and enjoy the game however you please.

[AnaLoGMunKy]

Originally posted by SheridanR:

I wonder how many people would demand an option to turn off the timer in Super Mario Brothers if the online gaming community existed in 1985. ;p

I have been wondering this type of thing alot. Like back in the day you had to accept games as they were, bugs and all. I started on the Commodore-64 on games like Load-Runner, Cosmonaught and Creatures and they came on a tape or a cart (this was even b4 snes etc).

Not saying I prefer it that way, I think what we have is wonderful, Devs and Players in direct contact and the ability to patch games and auto-update via steam.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by mistersneak:

For me, the Minotaur makes you approach the level differently - requiring you to shake up your routine in exploring. Routine is not good for a roguelike actually, as it gets boring!

Except forcing progression just replaces one routine with another. Giving the player an incentive to advance faster would be good; forcing them to do so not so much.

[LordBlade]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Except forcing progression just replaces one routine with another. Giving the player an incentive to advance faster would be good; forcing them to do so not so much.

I agree. I would rather have to choose between spending a lot of time on a level to scour for advantages or jumping ahead quickly to try and get some other sort of advantage.

[Losername]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Except forcing progression just replaces one routine with another. Giving the player an incentive to advance faster would be good; forcing them to do so not so much.

Well that's just like, your opinion, man. :)

When you make your own roguelike you can design your minotaurs however you like, but for Barony we specifically designed them to be unstoppable for 90% of the game and we honestly, genuinely like them that way, so you really can't fault us for that.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by SheridanR:

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Except forcing progression just replaces one routine with another. Giving the player an incentive to advance faster would be good; forcing them to do so not so much.

Well that's just like, your opinion, man. :)

When you make your own roguelike you can design your minotaurs however you like, but for Barony we specifically designed them to be unstoppable for 90% of the game and we honestly, genuinely like them that way, so you really can't fault us for that.

I certainly appreciate that you included the option to turn it off. I tried the game with Minotaur on, and found it exceptionally annoying, so turned it off. After having a better grasp on the game, I might change that, but I'm not sure I see that happening. You already have hunger as a mechanic to encourage the player to keep moving, not sure why there was a need for redundant mechanics in that regard.

It makes sense in a game like Spelunky, which is really as much a platformer as anything else, but here it takes away from the game being Roguelike, shifting the game away from a complex "move forward to avoid wasting resources exploring" decision to a simpler "run because else you die" decision. A proper Roguelike is largely about resource management and tactics, two things discouraged by a binary move-or-die mechanic tied to a real time clock.

While I've never made a Roguelike (and never intend to), technically neither have you, at least with Barony.

[mistersneak]

You call it redundant, but it does require the player to play differently than the hunger system, so it's not. I understand your feeling on this is that the minotaur is objectively bad, or that it's not good for a roguelike or whatever, but I'm afraid we just disagree, and many players enjoy the tension and fear that the minotaur brings to the game. But all this really doesn't matter. We included the option to turn it off, so there's really nothing more to discuss.

Also claiming that Barony isn't a roguelike is a pointless discussion, so let's leave that at the door.