Questions and thoughts on lore (SPOILER)

[reletr]

Question 1: Who is the little boy that appears at the grave at the beginning, in one of Kathy's dream, and in the end sequence? My best assumption is that he's Kathy's little brother, angry that Kathy sent her mum away to a mental facility.

Question 2: What was Lily so guilty of that caused her to turn towards the Red Man?

Question 3: Who was "FB" in the papers you find in the church's locker? Why was he ascended into heaven?

Thoughts: While I do like the ending, I don't like how it doesn't address the side characters and their fates. Like, what's Nathan gonna be doing now that Abyss is sealed off? What about Cocky? Why was Brian liked in the Black Hats? Also, Eileen waking up from her coma and becoming more philosophical just seems to be random, esp. since from her point of view, she got drugged by Isaac, saw the Conduit protecting her, and then waking up at Grandma's house.

[SullenSpud]

The little boy who appears at the grave is a representation of the child Kathy had aborted

[steef]

1: Like SullenSpud mentioned, this is very likely the aborted child (you may remember a dream/flashback sequence of Kathy at the clinic, and the scene in the abyss with the tool make it very clear)

2: I've read some theories here that Lily was able to sort of predict (or maybe instruct?) next victims/mending-candidates through her paintings. She may have felt guilt because of that. Another smart remark I've seen on here is that Lily's mother at one point says she used to smoke the crimson flower, and it's theorized that this caused the siblings to see the crimson man. (as you may recall, according to the brother, Lily and the crimson man did not get along; she would not take her medicine. So I would not say she turned to him, rather turned on him)

3: Okay, I was really puzzled at what those blue letters meant, but now that you say they're people, I think FB would be Father Bill (the founder of the church). At least his son is convinced he ascended. (he's also on the television in the jail once, or mabye twice)

I'm not sure in what state Father Bill is though, we can hear him on the television once, but there's also this odd scene where the crimson man is speaking in the church office, and Bill's portrait cries blood. Does not seem like Bill is a great fan of the crimson man.

About Eileen: she did check in at the abyss (her autograph is in the guestbook/phone book), so she may have faced some challenges in there as well, making her wiser (the actual experience either repressed or forgotten in some way, but the lesson stayed). But I'm not sure.

[Gianan]

1) The boy clearly represents the aborted child of Kathy, like the others said (clinic nightmare on 1st day, tool he places on his head, his words).
Another confirmation, is that the papers from the church list 3 challenges to perform "the mending": atonement of the mother, absolution of the father, contrition for the son.

2) Maybe I missed that, but who said she felt guilty?
From what I understand, she sacrificed herself (asked her brother to kill her) in order to become a spirit, and help future Kathy to close the passage (or whatever she did in the ending).
She knew the different lines of the future, so she knew this would have happened (she also painted the final scene of the burning wood, some character said that).

3) - Sacred unity: Father Bill
- Cast into the abyss: Jimmy Cochran, Lily Myers, Joseph Rain.
Obviously these were all assumptions by Father Isaac, and he may be wrong.



I have other two questions:

4) In the ending, Lily urges Kathy to burn the flowers and close the passage before the man in red finds out. But... are we sure he is against that?
We know from Cochran that the man in red was an ally of her grandfather (who wanted to close the passage), and he said to Kathy to follow his steps. He helped her, more than anything.

Also, he never appeared to Father Isaac, and he is not related to his crimes (Isaac acts under the order of his dead father).


5) Indeed, Father Bill--- what is he now? He seems to eat human souls given by his son.
Clearly he had a different fate from Cochran, Lily or grandpa.
Why? Because he passed the tests? So did Kathy, but she didn't trasfigurate in a different plane of existence. Maybe her body must die first?

[steef]

Originally posted by Gianan:

Another confirmation, is that the papers from the church list 3 challenges to perform "the mending": atonement of the mother, absolution of the father, contrition for the son.

Oh, wow, that totally did not click in my head before. Nice catch!

4) I'm also torn on this one. It sort of seems to me that the game first sets the crimson man as "the good guy" and then the mysterious "white man" (unnamed I believe) to be the bad guy. But then the mood sort of changes with the creepy crying portrait scene and the "take your medicine". I now think of the crimson man as a sort of capricious character, neither good nor bad. (I agree that's unsatisfactory..)

5) No idea. I find it hard to place him as well on the ethic scale.

New questions from me:

6) At the end of the mending, when Kathy dispels the other Kathy, the other Kathy says (iirc): "Impossible! I am the original one!" Has anyone been able to place this? Is the Kathy that leaves the hole not the same as the one that went in? Or is the other one just very convinced of being the real one? (side note, it also bugs me that the cogs only stop turning on the upper floor, and not on the others, but I'm not sure if this is something to read into)

7) Who or what is the white man that appears in some of the dreams? He seemed to be nurturing the hatred of the aborted child in one scene? Maybe he's the overseer of the mending hole of sorts? Could it be Father Bill?

Finally, an observation: when Kathy arrives at the scene of the hole, there's a flower patch reading "where she met her end" (iirc). When she leaves, intending to burn the flowers, the patch is gone. Could this be an indication that somehow these flowers moved and were thus saved from the flames? (possible option for a sequel maybe?) There's also the crimson man appearing at the graveyard after the flowers were burnt.

[zara2148]

Having just finished the game, I can say that for me, my most pressing questions are about the Crimson One.. After playing the game through I replayed his first meeting with Kathy while in pursuit of missed achievements.. and interestingly, it raises FURTHER questions about him.

Tantalizing tidbits dropped in the first meeting with Crimson One:

* His name was taken from him, hence why he goes by a nickname
* He says he met Kathy before this meeting, where she gave him her name. She does not remember this, and never does within the game.
* He says he went to some trouble to meet Kathy there... implying, in my opinion, he's doing it covertly. Perhaps without the old god's knowledge.

Finally, he tells Kathy to listen to the 'drowned girl' and to follow the path of her grandfather... which makes me wonder if Lily and Joseph were 100 percent correct about what they said about him in the ending. Did he just want Kathy to follow them down there and get stuck, or did he want her to follow their advice out of there... also it just occurred to me that while Kathy has only interacted with the Crimson One, there are other servants mentioned, likely including the all white man who looks exactly like the Crimson One. Are we certain it's the Crimson One we see on the (black and whitish) screen in the end? Or just another servant Kathy mistakes for him after the warnings about him? (I'm probably reaching with this last bit, I know).

Also another tidbit about him not followed up on yet... but Jimmy said he was the man Kathy reunited with his family to prompt her to ask about the Red Man. Possibly a reference to their past meeting (or considering how Jimmy talks, a future meeting?)

My theory at the moment is that the Crimson One is pursuing his own agenda, rather than the interests of his 'God'. But he still sometimes has to play the part of being faithful, hence why he can seem so variable in his behavior. On Kathy's side he may not be, but he does seem to have some respect for her, since he talks about understanding why "he" speaks so highly of Kathy when she's out of earshot.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong about all of this. Honestly, I want a sequel not just for more Kathy and Eileen, but also because I need to know what is UP with the Crimson One.