Confused with storyline (spoilers)

[Si]

I did a youtube let's play and I enjoyed the game and was happy for the price I paid, but the storyline confused me somewhat.


I'll sum it up like this: Kathy's grandpa dies. Her flatmate told us about it and we rush off to attend the funeral. We find out he was consigned to a wheelchair and we want to figure out why he was in the wheelchair and why he died. We go on this adventure, finding clues along the way, but the next bit confuses me.


Why did we have to find out so much about the grandpa's relationship with the air force? Was that so we could find out about Cocky and Charles? Who exactly was Cocky? I know he's Jimmy Cochran, but I don't fully understand who he actually is and why he's crazy? And who exactly is the crimson one?? He is seen walking past the window of the Rain Residence but I don't exactly know who he is.

Maybe i'm thinking a bit too deep - but I think the game needed to hold your hand a little bit more and tell you more about the characters. There was a lot of gameplay and dialogue and maybe there wasn't enough time to fit more in. But if there is a Kathy Rain 2, I hope it will clear up some of these questions because I feel like I went out of my way to talk to every character and listen to everything I could, and am still missing bits and pieces.

I managed to get all but two of the Steam Achievements for this game on my first playthrough. I'm not sure what i've missed but i'll look it up and try and get them soon :-)

[drewberculosis]

I also feel like there were some pieces missing from the story, or some things that weren't explained in full. I agree the plot-important characters could have been fleshed out more.
But anyway,
I think we had to learn about his relationship with the Air Force just for gameplay reasons, namely finding the names of the other 2 men in the photo, tracking them down, etc. And we also learned a little about Grandpa by doing this. Doesn't strike me as particularly important.
I suppose Cocky must have gone crazy after seeing the 3 lights? In the bible pages you get from Father Bill's safe, there's 3 initials mentioned: JC (Jimmy Cochran) LM (Lily Myers) and JR (Joseph Rain) as people who met the 'god' and couldn't handle it. One inconsistency here is that we learn at the end that JR actually went further than the others, and was waiting in the otherwold to help Kathy, so I guess he was okay. LM was also in the otherwold, but Nathan said she wouldn't "take the medicine," which I'm guessing would be inhaling the flowers or possibly descending into the pit. It's a little unclear *what* exactly happened to Cocky that made him call Joseph Rain. We don't know if he was out looking for the lights, or if he saw them randomly? And if he was looking for them -- why? How did he know about them?
And the Crimson One is mentioned in Bill's bible pages as a servant of the old god. He's also the 'prophet' of Bill's church. His job is to find people/souls for the old god, and he wants them to I guess inhale the flowers which have a connection to the old god. Maybe doing so sends the person to the old god, because the county has a high rate of missing persons. Beyond that, we don't really know. He's a misterious non-human being. In 1 of the dream sequences it looks like there's a "White One" as well, unless that was just an 'echo' or something of the Crimson One.

[Krylo]

Originally posted by Simon:

I did a youtube let's play and I enjoyed the game and was happy for the price I paid, but the storyline confused me somewhat.


I'll sum it up like this: Kathy's grandpa dies. Her flatmate told us about it and we rush off to attend the funeral. We find out he was consigned to a wheelchair and we want to figure out why he was in the wheelchair and why he died. We go on this adventure, finding clues along the way, but the next bit confuses me.


[spoilers] Why did we have to find out so much about the grandpa's relationship with the air force? Was that so we could find out about Cocky and Charles? Who exactly was Cocky? I know he's Jimmy Cochran, but I don't fully understand who he actually is and why he's crazy? And who exactly is the crimson one?? He is seen walking past the window of the Rain Residence but I don't exactly know who he is. [/spoilers]

Maybe i'm thinking a bit too deep - but I think the game needed to hold your hand a little bit more and tell you more about the characters. There was a lot of gameplay and dialogue and maybe there wasn't enough time to fit more in. But if there is a Kathy Rain 2, I hope it will clear up some of these questions because I feel like I went out of my way to talk to every character and listen to everything I could, and am still missing bits and pieces.

I managed to get all but two of the Steam Achievements for this game on my first playthrough. I'm not sure what i've missed but i'll look it up and try and get them soon :-)

Just so you know, your spoiler tag didn't work. It's [ spoiler ] instead of [ spoilers ].

Note that when Kathy finds the Abyss she can see a message written with the red flowers, ostensibly for her. She hadn't inhaled or consumed the flowers recently (people have suggested the side-effects wear off after a day, "like a hangover") so it's fairly safe to assume she wasn't hallucinating at the time, and therefore someone physically arranged the flowers in this pattern. But who? The Crimson One? If so, he must be real in some way, or at least able to manipulate the real world. It's another one of those questions that's never really answered. There's an ocean of them in this game... it's always disappointing when a mystery title can't end itself on something that halfway makes sense. I think "open book" endings are okay in certain cases but this one just didn't fit.

BTW, Kathy didn't even repay the hobo for hitting him with a damn taser. Not cool.

[Sika]

I'm beginning to wonder if there is only any sense to the story. As you may see in "The Strangers" by Na Hong-jin, there are twists on twists on twists and we desperately think about a meaning, but according to the director's style, there may not be any.
(and the funny thing is that the movie talks about religious stuff too)

So I think I won't look for a meaning anymore, and just accept that the game is this way and that I don't have more explanations for now.

[Si]

Thanks guys. I just fixed my spoiler tags, I must have been tired and messed them up. Glad it's not just me who was looking for a full / deeper meaning to this game.

[Etton Veil]

IRL there's reports of spiritual experiences and finding out more about oneself, working out lingering, subconscious problems through the use of psychoactive drugs. While this is not a recommendation, it has happened to people.

Looks to me like the drug, i.e. flower, enabled Kat to deal with stuff she couldn't forget or work out: her father leaving, her mother going insane and Kathie institutionalizing her, aswell as the abortion she had. She hated her father and mother, and hated herself for what she did to her mom aswell as her unborn child. That's why she faced zombie-dad, ward-mom, casket-kid and ultimately her mirror image.

The crimson one might be a metaphor for addiction. He lures people in. The drug might be what made people mad. I think it was Granny who briefly touched the subject of Kat's mother doing drugs. Her father was also into the drug, see the bloodier mary. Running away from that place maybe was the one thing that actually saved his life.

After working out her problems, dealing with her past, Kathy has no more use for the drug and destroys it. Thus also preventing other people from falling for it.

The thing with the abyss might be some kind of sensory-deprivation tank, helping one to get rid of influences from your surroundings to more clearly focus on the self.

[Krylo]

Originally posted by Etton Veil:

IRL there's reports of spiritual experiences and finding out more about oneself, working out lingering, subconscious problems through the use of psychoactive drugs. While this is not a recommendation, it has happened to people.

Looks to me like the drug, i.e. flower, enabled Kat to deal with stuff she couldn't forget or work out: her father leaving, her mother going insane and Kathie institutionalizing her, aswell as the abortion she had. She hated her father and mother, and hated herself for what she did to her mom aswell as her unborn child. That's why she faced zombie-dad, ward-mom, casket-kid and ultimately her mirror image.

The crimson one might be a metaphor for addiction. He lures people in. The drug might be what made people mad. I think it was Granny who briefly touched the subject of Kat's mother doing drugs. Her father was also into the drug, see the bloodier mary. Running away from that place maybe was the one thing that actually saved his life.

After working out her problems, dealing with her past, Kathy has no more use for the drug and destroys it. Thus also preventing other people from falling for it.

The thing with the abyss might be some kind of sensory-deprivation tank, helping one to get rid of influences from your surroundings to more clearly focus on the self.

It's unfortunate that the flower-drug conclusion is the closest thing we have to making sense of it all. It only works - and even then only halfway - if all the characters were at all times off their face on the red flowers. Unfortunately though, this still leaves too many questions up in the air.

[TangoBravo]

Starts out as an interesting detective story, ends as some half-assed super natural mystery which get tangled up in its metaphors until it just hangs itself...

But I certainly would give a more focussed sequel another chance. After all the voice acting, the art and the whole production value is rather impressive and one can sense a lot of love for the details all over the game.

[sauhan77]

Originally posted by Etton Veil:

IRL there's reports of spiritual experiences and finding out more about oneself, working out lingering, subconscious problems through the use of psychoactive drugs. While this is not a recommendation, it has happened to people.

Looks to me like the drug, i.e. flower, enabled Kat to deal with stuff she couldn't forget or work out: her father leaving, her mother going insane and Kathie institutionalizing her, aswell as the abortion she had. She hated her father and mother, and hated herself for what she did to her mom aswell as her unborn child. That's why she faced zombie-dad, ward-mom, casket-kid and ultimately her mirror image.

The crimson one might be a metaphor for addiction. He lures people in. The drug might be what made people mad. I think it was Granny who briefly touched the subject of Kat's mother doing drugs. Her father was also into the drug, see the bloodier mary. Running away from that place maybe was the one thing that actually saved his life.

After working out her problems, dealing with her past, Kathy has no more use for the drug and destroys it. Thus also preventing other people from falling for it.

The thing with the abyss might be some kind of sensory-deprivation tank, helping one to get rid of influences from your surroundings to more clearly focus on the self.

I really like your interpretion :)

One thing I didn't understand: Who is "FB?", mentioned on the bible pages to be worthy etc. (didn't play in english), any Ideas?

[Etton Veil]

Originally posted by sauhan77:

Originally posted by Etton Veil:

IRL there's reports of spiritual experiences and finding out more about oneself, working out lingering, subconscious problems through the use of psychoactive drugs. While this is not a recommendation, it has happened to people.

Looks to me like the drug, i.e. flower, enabled Kat to deal with stuff she couldn't forget or work out: her father leaving, her mother going insane and Kathie institutionalizing her, aswell as the abortion she had. She hated her father and mother, and hated herself for what she did to her mom aswell as her unborn child. That's why she faced zombie-dad, ward-mom, casket-kid and ultimately her mirror image.

The crimson one might be a metaphor for addiction. He lures people in. The drug might be what made people mad. I think it was Granny who briefly touched the subject of Kat's mother doing drugs. Her father was also into the drug, see the bloodier mary. Running away from that place maybe was the one thing that actually saved his life.

After working out her problems, dealing with her past, Kathy has no more use for the drug and destroys it. Thus also preventing other people from falling for it.

The thing with the abyss might be some kind of sensory-deprivation tank, helping one to get rid of influences from your surroundings to more clearly focus on the self.

I really like your interpretion :)

One thing I didn't understand: Who is "FB?", mentioned on the bible pages to be worthy etc. (didn't play in english), any Ideas?

Thanks.

My memory is failing me, I can't for the life of me remember what or who FB stands for.

[kamba]

me and my wife whink that FB stands for Father Bill :-)

[sauhan77]

Originally posted by kamba:

me and my wife whink that FB stands for Father Bill :-)

hmm yes, that could be... but haben't these notes been written by Father Bill himself? seems a bit odd he refers to himself as "Father Bill", doesn't it?