Some slider ideas for better gameplay (if you want to try them)

[jonmoney]

So I have been messing around with gameplay sliders and team tactics to try to figure out better gameplay. I have played a few single matches, played on Be a Pro and also after setting teams up CPU vs CPU. I think I have found some settings that I am happy with at least. They don't make it certain for you to win all the time. And they don't cancel out all the crazy stuff the CPU does in this game but I found it tones them down and you get a reasonably normal type game with enough uncertainty and freedom for the CPU to act in it's own way enough to give a decent game. So If you want to maybe look at them here they are:
Difficulty: Pro
All settings on (you could switch forward passes to off but I kept them on)
Injury Freq: 1 (still get 2-3 sometimes)
High Tackle: 1
Intercept Freq: 10
Offload Chance: 5
Offload Freq: 2
Offload Sucess: 20 (still allows you to do them but they are not out of hand. and you have to time it right to get them)
Pass Success: 35-40 (any higher and you get those crazy half field passes- at 35 still hard to pass but if you are patient it works)
Break Tackle: 15
Tackle Ability: 35
Ruck Tackle Bonus: 26
Attack Urgency: 44
Defensive Urgency: 36

Team Tactics Sliders (0 being the left and 100 being the far right- I'll put the category closest to the slider value so you know)

DEFENSIVE ZONE
Forwards: 90 (Drive), 10 (Take Contact)
Backs: 90 (Kick off), 90 (Take Contact/Offload
Line Width and depth can be what you want but I found if you have it 100 (Deep) it gives your player more time to get the kick off (not always though)
Lineouts I left as they were
Ruck Commitment: 100 (High) Lets you run a couple of phases to get the forwards out of the backline so you can kick downfield
Ruck win: 20 (Pass)
Lineout win: 20 (Pass)
Scrum win: 0 (Pass)
Maul win: 20 (Pass)

MID ZONE
Forwards: 90 (Drive), 10 (Take Contact)
Backs: 40 (Pass), 10 (Take Contact)
Ruck Commitment: 60 (High)
Ruck win: 80 (Pick and go)
Lineout win: 50 (Pass/Pick and go)
Srum win: 50 (Pass/Pick and go)
Maul win: 70 (Pick and go)

ATTACK ZONE
Forwards: 90 (Drive), 10 (Take Contact)
Backs: 25 (Pass), 10 (Take Contact)
Ruck Commitment: 80 (High)
Ruck win: 80 (Pick and go)
Lineout win: 70 (Pick and go)
Scrum win: 50 (Pass/Pick and go)
Maul win: 80 (Pick and go)

Kicking is personal preference really (whether you want teams to kick for territory or touch or what side kicks go on kickoffs)
The one thing I did do was put Penalty kicks at 60 - 65 (Goal). This encourages the CPU to take more kicks at goal and from further away (near halfway). If its much higher then they will try to kick from way over halfway so again personal preference but it was nice to see the South African kickers attempt shots from beyond halfway and actually get the kick sometimes. Again, comes down to personal preference.

So there you go. I set this up for all teams (haven't done any for sevens).
Which takes a bit of time if I am honest but I feel it just gives a better game.
You will get a slower game, maybe less scoring sometimes certainly when I tested it on 10 and 20 minutes the scores were lower (one or two tries each team) but still a couple of games where the score was high, depends on player ability really. Had a CPU game between Auckland and BOP final score 28 - 17.
Noticed less crazy passes between players (still a few though).
Having sliders 100 contact and 100 Drive just made players hit rucks and not pass at all (frustrating on Be a Pro!)
Also found a few more penalties were being called for hands in the ruck and not releasing against the CPU teams so that was encouraging

Anyway if you want to try them feel free to and comment on what is not good or what is good. It is personal preference so they may not be what you want. Also you might say that doing the tactic sliders like that makes all the teams play exactly alike. I haven't found that yet. I think there is enough leeway in the sliders to allow the CPU freedom to play it's own way and I left line depths/widths/ pod options and all that alone and you can always set your teams up to play how you want anyway. I found that there was still variety in the way the game was being played by the CPU against me.
Did I win 100% of the games I tested? No. That might be because as someone mentioned on this forum I am trash, but if you set the game up so you win all the time it would hardly be called Rugby Challenge would it?

[jonmoney]

A couple of recent scores from games I've played so you can see the variety from theses sliders:

Mode:
CAREER
20 Min game: Super Rugby Chiefs (User) vs Waratahs (CPU)
0 - 3 Waratahs
my defence was solid but I couldn't link with any players after line breaks! (very low score but defence was good from both teams)

BE A PRO: 20 Min game: Currie Cup Gricas (User) vs Vodacom Bulls (CPU)
8 - 5 Gricas
Scored early in the first and then got a penalty mid through 2nd half. Defence of both teams strong. CPU scored after buzzer to close the game up!

BE A PRO: 40 Min game: Currie Cup Gricas (User) vs Cell C Sharks (CPU)
45 - 5 Sharks
Close in the first part of 1st half but then I only got 20% possession cause of handling errors, especially on my own line and they scored every time! No crazy 50m passes or anything for tries from CPU, just ineffective play from my defending players (I made 24 tackles with my Pro and only missed 3)

BE A PRO: 20 Min Game: Currie Cup Gricas (User) vs DHL Western Province (CPU)
14 - 3 Western Province
My wingers kept dropping the ball at crucial moments so I couldn't get back into the game. That's all that cost me really.

I think that shows a little variety in contests and scores between teams.
Yes I only won one game! But that's not the point!
Just wanted to show you could get tight games and blown out games and regular scores for games as well. Just like in real rugby games.
Just to show that the setups for these sliders are reasonable.
Still somewhat a lot of chain passes from CPU.
Possibly I would need to set priorities for phases closer to taking contact from Mauls, scrums and lineouts, but my preference is to have a more free flowing game with more running and passing. It's not insane if you concentrate on defence and don't commit too many to the rucks.

[WallysWorld]

Super thanks for your posts, jonmoney. I tried your Gameplay sliders and like them very much. I'm still learning the game so I only play on Hard for now.

[jonmoney]

Thanks. Glad to know someone is willing to try them out. Hope that they give you the gameplay that you like. I'm pretty settled on them now after having played quite a few games. You might want to tweak them to suit your own style as you go on. But thanks for letting me know. I appreciate and hope you get enough enjoyment out of the game. One thing I was playing with was taking off forward passes. The game seems to do so many of them. It doesn't stop scrums because there are plenty of knock ons. But again personal preference. Sometimes I activate the forward passes just to change it up!

[Jakkalas]

Is it possible to set the team tactics for all teams easily without having to edit each team?

[jonmoney]

Jakkalas님이 먼저 게시:

Is it possible to set the team tactics for all teams easily without having to edit each team?

Not that I know of. It is tedious and time consuming I know to do all teams (I did that!). Once you sort of get into a rhythm it gets done but not without some time. Maybe if someone computer savvy could create the settings file or something to mod it, then it might be easier.
And again it depends on what sort of gameplay you want. I found that changing all of the teams worked best for me despite it taking so long.

[jonmoney]

Gonna rework the sliders again. The Gameplay was annoying me still a bit. So far in testing I had some better results in terms of CPU gameplay behaviour and also some success with the inclusion of the forward pass being on in gameplay. Just going to test a few more changes before I post. Looking at playing a competition to test over long term and then I will post some new tactics sliders that I think are better.

[jonmoney]

Still running through the test phase of the sliders but so far it's looking promising. The main concern is that the way the game is set up, PRO difficulty tends to produce the crazy passing craze in games even though I felt it had been toned down somewhat. I think that is just how that difficulty works. It may work more consistently on the Hard difficulty but I find it too easy to rack up the points on that level!
Anyway here are some recent scores to give you some idea.
I chose to play the Super Rugby Competition. My human team is the Sunwolves. PRO difficulty and 40 minute games.
Round 1: @ Waratahs L 7-14 . 3 injuries. Only 2-3 forward passes. Same with Knockons. CPU counterattacks featured a couple of crazy pass sequences but otherwise okay.
Round 2: @ Reds L 17-43. 2 injuries. Got punished for turnovers. Gameplay fairly consistent.
Round 3: V Hurricanes W 27-21. 1 injury. Lucky break at the end gave me the win.
Round 4: @ Brumbies W 45-7. 1 injury. Only 4 forward passes (both teams). Was able to control possession and scored off the CPU mistakes. Gameplay was reasonable but when trying to come back from behind there was a lot of zany fast passes from CPU.
Round 5: V Rebels W 31-17. Probably should have been 17-17 but for 2 knockons by CPU on their own line at the end. Gameplay was solid. If you defend well you can limit the rush passes from the CPU so reasonably happy.
Round 6: @ Bulls W 29-10. 1 injury.
Round 7: @ Sharks W 25-17. 2 injuries. Game was back and forth. Still some crazy passing from CPU but this game was by far the most balanced. I went up 10-0 early and then the CPU came back to lead in the second at 10-17. I reduced the lead to 17-15 and then got a late penalty from halfway to go up 18-17. Got lucky to win at the end when the CPU tried to break the game open at the end and I got an interception to seal the game. CPU would have won 24-18.

I am going to finish the competition and then make a decision whether I am happy with the sliders. Then if they are are good enough I will post them. Maybe a video showing gameplay could help but I am am still figuring out how to edit and post one so no promises but I'll try.

[WallysWorld]

Cool! Thanks for the update, jonmoney.

[jonmoney]

So after finishing the competition I decided to go back and tweak things a bit. The biggest problem was that if you play in a competition or career and you win a few games it boosts your overall. To the point that all of a sudden it gets easier to play with certain sliders set. So I feel like I need to maybe boost the defensive tactics and other things.
Done a bit of testing and latest result are promising.
Played 3 full games vs CPU so far. (played a bunch of others but didn't complete them cause I wasn't happy with the way it was playing - AI and overall feel, not whether I was winning or not!)
Lost to Australia 27 - 24 as the All Blacks (not happy about it but it was a fair result due to my mistakes!)
Lost to Auckland 15 -10 (I think - forgot to record the score) as Bay of Plenty.
Beat Auckland 29 - 22 (Last minute try- game was headed for a draw).
Also set up some CPU vs CPU games using different teams from different comps (again did not finish them all cause I was tweaking things slider and tactics wise) The best game I had with the latest sliders was: Auckland beat Bay of Plenty 24 - 6

Points aren't as important as gameplay though. I felt that the game was more settled in terms of play from the AI. It's still not fantastic but it's getting there. At least in this round of things I did get punished for mistakes - the AI did capitalise. And it has been harder to play against it. I am going to run another competition to see how things go over the long term. Will choose a weak team and see how we go with it. Will post the new sliders soonish when I feel happier with them. So far so good though!

[jonmoney]

Here are my gameplay sliders
(Had a screenshot but couldn't figure out how to add it within the text so it'll just be a written one. Sorry)

I'll put them here so you can see them. I will explain my justifications below if you want to know. If not then at least you won't need to read through my long winded explanations. I will also add that in terms of using them they seemed to work fairly well with the default settings for teams but I think the best gameplay is by manipulating the team tactics sliders (which I will post later after some more gameplay- just need to see how they stand over a competition)

Everything on for penalties etc. Forward passes can be off (I like them on even though some games it's out of hand. Whoever coded it got it wrong but in my settings it doesn't always ruin the game). As for knockons - you can't have rugby without scrums (check the real life stats!) so they need to be on.

Injury Frequency: 1 (2 is too high)
High Tackle Frequency: 1 or 2
Intercept Frequency: 5
Offload Chance: 13
Offload Frequency:13
Offload Success: 20
Pass Success Rate: 35
Break Tackle: 10
Tackle Ability: 40
Ruck Tackle Bonus: 40
Attack Urgency: 38
Defensive Urgency: 40

Offloads: Checked the actual statistics in real rugby and the average number of offloads in a game is between 11 and 20. I found that putting offloads at 13 gives the CPU a chance to do this and you as well. Keeping the success at 20 (40%) ensures that it doesn't always come off just like in a real game. (Game Tactics sliders tone this down if you get the right settings. I found that multiple offloads that we think we see is actually passes being thrown cause in the games I had with offloads low I could swear there had been 8-9 offloads only to see that it was more like 0-1! Now you get about 8 or so (from both teams) in a match which I think is about right! But they are not crazy!)

Pass Success: At 0 you can't pass! Neither can the CPU. At 100 it's good for you (you still make mistakes) but the AI gets crazy throwing half field reverse passes and the like so I toned it down. I played around with it and it seemed to me at 35 the AI is a bit more circumspect with the long half field passes and long reverse passes. And you need to be wise with your passes too - you will be punished for button mashes!

Break Tackle: Had this at 0 but couldn't fend or anything although the AI could. At 5 I could sidestep but nothing else. At 10 you can fend and make some broken tackles but you gotta time it right. The AI sometimes exploits you but you can still come back and tackle and it's more like a real game. You still have to tackle well.

Tackle Ability: It makes sense. It's about 80%. You should have to work hard to break tackles! Here the star players are harder to bring down but not impossible and it just feels right.

Ruck Tackle Bonus: I had this at 45 because the statistics say that maul and ruck retention is about 94% in real life. It was a good set but only thing was you could NEVER steal the ball (AI could!) and it was impossible to pick up penalties against the CPU for holding on or hands in the ruck. At 40 this actually does happen! The only compromise is that the retention is less than 90%. You have to be smart about when to hit it up to retain the ball. And you will get penalised too for not releasing and hands in the ruck which is good- it forces you to think instead of just button mashing to win the contest!

Attack Urgency: Needs to be high so you can actually have a backline or at least players to pass to. Any lower and you can never pass to a winger successfully (with pass success at 35). And to attack against a well organised defensive line.

Defensive Urgency: If it's lower than Attack it's far too easy to score and often attack has the advantage in CPU games. I feel like having defense higher gives a more realistic challenge. However any higher than this and you can't break down the defense at all and the CPU will open the middle of the field to you and then close in and isolate you and steal the ball from you the moment you go to ground.

One thing I will say is I noticed something new in the game today. I had knocked the ball on and the AI had the advantage. When I went into the 2nd ruck from the knockon I caught the AI holding on to the ball. But instead of giving me the penalty (as it might of in the past) it went back to the first infringement (knockon) and gave the AI the scrum. I had never seen that before. And also there were 2 instances where advantage was played out and it wasn't from kicking the ball. There was enough forward momentum inside the first 2 rucks to complete it. That was a first too!

[jonmoney]

Added screenshots for gameplay sliders
Description below:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510949389

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510949688

Tactics Sliders

Defensive Zone
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510950076

Main change is to Forwards (Drive - 95 - and Contact - 5 -), Backs (Kickoff - 85 - and Contact - 40 -)

Mid Zone
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510950487

Attack Zone
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510950723

Kicking
Only changes I made was to put Kickoffs to the right and put Goal kicking at 65.

[Jakkalas]

Thanks for all the effort. Will give this a go

[jonmoney]

So...

Here is the video I said I'd try to post.
Forgive me for the poor quality, really new at this. Hopefully there is enough for you to see how it plays. Might not be the best example but it's a taster at least!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3aLoi5DJCY&feature=youtu.be

I didn't change all of the values in tactics. Just mainly the backs and forwards values and the decisions on ruck lineout and maul wins and ruck commitment.

Like I said I will run through a competition to see how it plays out over a series of games.

[jonmoney]

Competition games seem to be going well at this early stage. Varied results, lots of different gameplay happening. Some tight games, a couple of not so tight.

At this stage I might suggest that you reduce the high tackle frequency to 1. There was a couple of games where the CPU ended up with a couple of yellow cards in the same game and 1 where they had 2 at the same time!
I actually saw a red card too which was quite novel (and not against me either!).
Also you may want to turn forward passes off (I left them on but sometimes it gets annoying if the coding takes over too much and dishes them out!)

I will say that if you want these sliders to give you a 40 point win every time then don't bother with them, they are not going to work for you like that. Obviously if you play well you can win no problems but some games it will just not work out that way (just like for real). If you just want to pass the ball around like crazy then again these sliders I don't think will help with that so much. I get plenty of handling errors in each game when I try to do that too much. And the CPU will turn over your ball more than you might like if you get isolated away from your other players or if you choose the wrong type of pass to hit it up or use so you have to be aware of where you are on the field and what the AI is doing too.

To give you a sense of the variation in games I will give you some results from the competition I am playing at the moment.
I chose the Guiness Pro 14 (using the Megapatch mod) and I picked Zebre (lowest ranked team). Chose to play 40 minute halfs (I have a bit of spare time lately)

Game 1 @ Cheetahs: W 24 - 14 (0 - 0 at halftime) 3 offloads from both sides in the game.
Game 2 Vs Munster: W 10 - 7 (scored in the last minute to turn around a 3 - 7 deficit. 4 offloads by both teams.
Game 3 @ Ospreys L 7 - 44 (got completely spanked. Couldn't break their defense and the AI carved me up on any turnovers and there were a few of those!)
Game 4 Vs Benetton W 20 - 6 (1 try at the start of the half and just before halftime gave me the advantage but the AI kept me scoreless the entire 2nd half!)
Game 5 Vs Leinster L 10 - 24 It was 17 - 3 until midway through the second when I clawed back a try to get close but near the end the AI intercepted a loose pass (I shouldn't have tried to do) and returned it to seal the victory.
Game 6 @ Southern Kings W 48 - 18 A double yellow card gave me some space to score a few tries that opened up the score. Would have been closer without them happening.

That big win gave me a big boost in ratings so it'll be interesting to see how that effects my following games. I hope it doesn't do too much, I have been enjoying the challenge of the games so far (yes even the ones where I got blown out!).

[jonmoney]

Week 7 Vs Glasgow Warriors L 7 - 24
Week 8 @ Newport Gwent Dragons W 27 -24 (Last minute Drop Goal)
Week 9 Vs Connacht L 14 - 54
Week 10 @ Cardiff Blues L 24 - 28 (CPU comeback in last 20 minutes)
Week 11 @ Ulster L 24 - 37 (Again another 2nd half comeback from CPU!)

Biggest hurdle is I am now down to my last backs in the starting team (3 SHF in backline). 14 injured. Which I'll admit is a lot. But it is what it is. I'm still satisfied with the gameplay, it still feels pretty solid so far.