New Grand Strategy gamer, Which one to buy?

[Ghini]

I'm pretty new to this genre but I'm willing to invest the time to learn the systems. What would be the best game (factoring price) to buy

Hearts of Iron 3 with all DLC for $10,
War in the West for $80,
Panzer Corps $20,
To End All Wars $40,
Commander the Great War $15.

[loki1006]

problem is they are all very different. HOI3 is in reality a space 4x game losely based in the 1930s, its unrealistic but can be fun to play. Panzer Corps is simple and fun. Of the two WW1 titles I'd prefer to end all wars but then I like the AGEOD system.

choice between this and War in the West is a matter of interests. At one level do you find the Soviet-German part of WW2 more interesting than western Europe from 1943-5? On the other hand, WiTW shows where the WiTE game system will evolve too - it has a much better supply system, some concept of time passing within a turn (the combat delay rule) and a much better modelling of the air war.

I like and play both, but WiTE has an epic scale that is lacking in WiTW (my personal view)

[CaptEggman]

Originally posted by Ghini:

Hearts of Iron 3 with all DLC for $10,
War in the West for $80,
Panzer Corps $20,
To End All Wars $40,
Commander the Great War $15.

HOI3 is Grand Strategy, easy to learn but hard to master.

War in the West/East are operational level wargames, not Grand Strategy.

Panzer Corps is a "Beer & Prezels" (i.e. simple) wargame, not Grand Strategy.

To End All Wars is Grand Strategy, but made by AGEOD, makers of horrible engines.

Commander is a little bigger than Panzer Corps, not Grand Strategy.

Anything by Paraodox (HOI, Europa Universalis) is a good place to start your Grand Strategy Journey.

[Luke]

If you are new to wargames start with PG. if you are new to Grand Strategy. Start with Commander Great War or Strategic Command: Assault on Europe (not on steam). I wouln't go near Gary Grigsby .... Yet :)

[CaptEggman]

I agree with Luke, Grigsby is something you graduate to, not start out with. I also agree on Commander Great War, it's a good start for Grand Strategy. PG, not begin Grand Strategy, really is a good start for operational level games: You'll learn combined arms tactics, unit management, etc. in an easy and accessible form. There's a reason why the PG games are so popular! If you pursue that itch for operational games, who knows, you might eventually end up with Grigsby's titles.

If you're looking for Grand Strategy, Steam has a pretty big selection you can find by browsing the genres. Do your research when a title looks good thought, Steam does sell a bunch of crap too.

[Ghini]

Ok, thank you. I've narrowed my titles to these 4.
Panzer Corps
Commander- The Great War
Unity of Command
Hearts of Iron 3

My interest began when I started playing Ult.Gen Gettysburg. Then I started looking at Mark Walker's Lock'n'load series because I'm having lunch with him next week. I really wanted the pc version of LnL but it appears to be delayed (not stalingrad) . So after much research it has me down to these titles to fill what i'm looking for. The time to learn and money suggest I make an educated decision.

I really want a game that has a branching/dynamic campaign, not just single scenarios. I want my progress or mistakes to matter. I'd like a solid UI. I wanted Civil War but that doesn't appear to be a solid option so WWI, WW2 will do. I've played CK2 so I have some knowledge of Paradox games but the depth is a bit overkill for me but nowhere near a deal killer. I like the idea of hex based tokens with easy to understand combat resolves.

I plan to revisit GG WitX but with the advice given I'll focus on one of these first.

[CaptEggman]

BTW: If you're looking for a fresh take on the Panzer X formula, check out Order of Battle : Pacific by The Artistocrats, published by Slitherine (available on Steam). It features a dynamic campaign where you really have to focus on the big picture when you put together your forces and go after main and side objectives. Take precious time to chase after a ghost fleet or maybe face it a few missions down the line. That kind of thing.

Whatever you pick, enjoy!

[Luke]

Sounds like a good plan but not clear why you don't want to try the existing pc LnL title if you are meeting with Mark. The Stalingrad one.
HOI i would suggest taking off the list for now. Pretty overwhelming.
Unity of Command is a quite thoughtful game, kind of a more realistic PAnzer Corps.
You can also try out a free variant of PC called Open General if you want to get your feet wet with that kind of engine.
But as CaptEggman pointed out these are operational .Commander is Grand Strategic

[Luke]

Order of Pacific actually has gotten very good buzz. Mught your best starting place in PAnzer Corps type universe, as CaptEggman suggests.

[Ghini]

Luke. My thoughts on passing on The Stalingrad L'n'L was the price $40, it seemed to be less than advertised, not on steam, and the fact that a newer better version looked to be coming fairly soon. However I could be missing out on a great game, hard to judge without some rating system for reviews. If anyone plays it and likes it better than the others on my short list please lmk. I think I will remove HOI from my list.

[Luke]

Well $40 you have a point :) LnL is a very tactical game of course and has some good and some bad points. I woukd keep to your list as you are thinking right now. Let us know what you decide!

[hertston]

If you are really willing to put the time and effort in ignore the rest and invest in the best, War in the Pacific: Admirals Edition. It's where you'll end up anyway, so might as well start there.

Like WitE, WitW, HoI3 and the Agoed games, it's not much more 'overwhelming' than the better sci-fi and fantasy 4X games, you just need to accept you won't be led by the nose and will actually have to read and refer to the manual frequently at first. The community (at Matrix) is large, knowledgable and will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

I really don't see price as a relevant factor. If you really get into just about any of the games mentioned, you'll play them for hundreds, maybe thousands of hours. I assume as you mentioned WitW your budget will stretch to any of the titles mentioned.

[Ghini]

I think I've made my decision.

It's influenced by current price/sales, the fact I may be having lunch with the game designer, learning curve, and my current obsession with the civil war era.

I'm going to buy Commander: The Great War (first)
followed by: Heroes of Stalingrad Lock n' load (hoping to catch a sale or word that the newer version will be released)
followed by: Unity of Command or Order of Battle:Pacific

Thanks to everyone for their helpful posts!

[*budd*]

Don't know that i would first go with WW1 static line trench warfare game. If your fine with slow developing warfare your good to go then. Pick a period and scale that interests you and then pick your game.

[Vuyek]

War in the East of course.

[Luke]

Commander Great War has a lot of non trench warfare: early western, eastern front, That being said i agree a more mobile game like PC or Unity would be a "safer" bet.