Hearts of Iron 3 or this?

[Lord Khane]

I picked up Hearts of iron 3 a while back on a really good sale the whole collection right now goes for 30.00 or so. Right now you can actually get all of paradox's collection for 100.00. Looking at this game it appears to look like a copy of that game in units but a step down on the map quality to hexes? Did not see anythign that the Hearts of Iron series didn't have done to the 10th power. And a crazy high price to top it off.

Mabe I am missing something and if so please let me know as I love strategy games and am always looking for another good one to pick up. I am not however just looking to throw money around.

[loki1006]

You're missing quite a lot to be honest. HOI 3 may as well be a space 4x for all its realism. There are AARs on how to do a world conquest with Albania, there is no feeling that what really worked in the era will work in the game, the AI is ...

This is realistic, its deeply researched, its in-depth. What worked in the real war works in the game. The AI will gvie you a good game, the active PBEM community will give you an excellent game against another human (and as its turn based you don't both need to be online at the same tiime).

[Musashi The Red Mist.]

Ahem, Played Pacwar and this gem. I LOVED pacwar, WITE took it to another level i believe.
Comparing Pacwar to HOI3 is like comparing a meteor impact crater to an IED explosion, the result proves which explosion was deeper.

PS. Confused this with war in russia. Apologies. Never played this but, PacWar rules , nuff said.

[hertston]

Originally posted by Lord Khane:

Mabe I am missing something and if so please let me know as I love strategy games and am always looking for another good one to pick up. I am not however just looking to throw money around.

What you are missing is that WitE is a wargame. It's a quite distinct genre from 'strategy' games such as HoI. It's aim is to simulate the actual conflict at the operational/strategic level as accurately as possible within the framework of a game that remains realistically playable. Compare with HoI3 which even it's most ardent fans wouldn't claim to be 'realistic' in that way; that's no criticism, it just isn't what HoI sets out to do.

Your best bet is to read up on the game at the Matrix site, read the AARs in the forums and watch some gameplay videos. That should give you an idea of what the game is, and whether it's for you.

[lvngbth]

Chalk and cheese error :)

This attempts to be a simulation of the campaign. Arguably, it goes far too far in its detail: as someone at OKH* or STAVKA**, I do not care whether that division has 56 pieces of artillery or 57, but that's the level that it can work at. If you are old enough to remember the 'monster' board wargames of the 1970s, those are its model.

Hearts of Iron doesn't pretend to be a simulation. It's a game. It's model is nearer Axis and Allies.

* If you don't know or can't find out what OKH was, this is not the game for you.

** Ditto.

[I'mBad]

HoI 3 is a strategic level wargame. You play Hitler/Stalin/world leader and make decisions like "should I build more divisions?" "Should I rebarrel the Panzer III?" "Should I invade Yugoslavia or let Italy have it?" "Should I hang with Turkey or not?"

Though you have plans and can manage battles tactically, most of your decisions are big picture. Combat is often throwing a stack of divisions at a province.

War in the East is much more operational. You have victory points to take, but how do you take them? Do you detach some panzers and send them north to take Leningrad? Do you focus on pockets or push for Moscow? There is also a lot of tactical play. This is deciding what divisions attack whom and how. Should you use your strong 16th panzer to shatter the enemy, or hit with 383rd Infantry first to open a hole then let the panzers go behind? Armament, diplomacy, other fronts are all done for you. You lose troops to the west as 42, 43, 44 and 45 go on. You can move your factories as Russia, but they automatically produce for you.

War in the East is the far more detailed game. If you want to feel like a general on a battlefield, this is the game for you. HoI puts you in the shoes of the leader of a whole country. If you want to feel like you are comanding a nation but leaving the war to the experts, HoI is your bet.

Both have their merits, but both scratch VERY different itches.

[Lord Khane]

Gonna watch a bit more gameplay. I enjoy both types of play. Seems like in HOI though how deep it is depends on what level of automation you set. You can just command the troops if you want or you can get in the nitty gritty with all the research, production, diplomacy and espionage etc.

The decisions like who to attack or where to deploy troops you decide. You decide if you research and improve artillery or vehicles. You decide with diplomacy who you hang with or not. Then when you do take it to the field a bunch of tactical battle management with flying bombers and interceptors using your units together to create a effective fighting force. All of what I want mixed in a bit. Maybe this game is more heavy on the consequence/reward side with the decisions like you mentioned having more weight? Requiring a rethink after each decision as it will probably alter the way the game is playing more? Going to watch more probably when I get done typing here.

I guess a big draw back for me was the map being hex, love the paradox maps it is what it is, hex just looks dated in comparison even though I know it can be done well as I do enjoy hex based games. And the price the big killer, I have splurged and been pleasantly surprised before when a game was in the 19.99-39.99 range and I wasn't sure about it but 59.99?? When you are not sure what level of replay ability you will get and others are so similar... and who is Gary Grigsby? Sorry but might be me not researching enough but never heard of him, the Dev I am guessing doing like Sid Meier's. Really threw me off like wow he is proud of that puppy got his name in there and gonna hit you for 60.00. Then I though maybe pricing tactic... get ya thinking it has to be that good if it is that much. That don't work on me so I was left with Indy dev being a tad greedy... Clearly that is not the case it has a following and you guys have wiped that impression for me and have sparked some interest... however the price being lower would have drawn me and probably many others in sooner at about 39.99 or so other factors aside. Just saying.

[Peltonx]

Originally posted by lvngbth:

Chalk and cheese error :)

This attempts to be a simulation of the campaign. Arguably, it goes far too far in its detail: as someone at OKH* or STAVKA**, I do not care whether that division has 56 pieces of artillery or 57, but that's the level that it can work at. If you are old enough to remember the 'monster' board wargames of the 1970s, those are its model.

Hearts of Iron doesn't pretend to be a simulation. It's a game. It's model is nearer Axis and Allies.

* If you don't know or can't find out what OKH was, this is not the game for you.

** Ditto.

I have played HoI and its a rag compared to WitE.
You keep track of 56 or 57 pcs of artillary I don't I just play and win many more times then losing.

Ignorant statemants are simply ignorant statements

I have played both you have not.

HoI is 30 bucks for a reason. You get what you pay for. Quality costs and junk is cheap.

WitE 29 - 4 - 8
Ended in:
1941- 21-0-1
1942- 7-0-2
1943- 1-2-4
1944- 0-1-1
1945- 0-1-0

[jabgamer]

Lord Khane, fair questions and points. Just google Gary Grigsby and you'll find this wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Grigsby
I've been working with him for 33 years now.

[Vuyek]

@jabgamer - you poor thing, you :P

[Bootn3ck]

I loved HOI3 and had all dlc etc.
I bought WITE 3 days ago, wanted it for ages but was wondering if game justified the price.
I can tell you that this game is more than well worth it, its so in depth and complicated that I'm sure i will easily surpass my 300+ hours played in HOI 3. Even though i loved the paradox series this game makes it more like an app game for your phone, the attention to detail is unreal, so much so and don't know why i ever doughted that this game would be any different to any of the other matrix games I own.

[Redrusty66]

HOI3 most certaionly, especially the full package. Value vs community vs company relations = miles above this one. Not that this company doesn't have good games, but in the greater scheme, the full package from support to ethics to playerbase and everything in beween. You'd be far better off with HOI3.

[Bootn3ck]

Have you played both games Redrusty66?

[Athos]

Redrusty apparently is big on gaming politics. Very boring.

[Bootn3ck]

Yeah i seen posts about how much it was etc etc etc. But seen as how he made a comment saying HOI 3 I assumed he had eventually bit the bullet and bought WITE, but it seems hes still spitting the dummy and making a comment when the original poster was asking which to choose.

[Lord Khane]

Thanks for the feed back everyone. I think this is one I will get watched a few deeper gameplay vids and I was liking what I saw. I have HOI3 so no need to buy that, just teetering on the fence about getting this one too. The price is still just a bit too much for me right now. Maybe if we get a good sale or somethign soon I will grab it up.