Price ?

[Bad Wolf]

78 euros ? Is this real or a bug ?

[Hot Sloppy Tuna]

I balked at the price as well Bad Wolf until I looked under the hood and saw just how much work and detail went into this thing. It really is a juggernaut of a war simulation and I can't seem to find ANY detail no matter how much I search that was left out concerning the Eastern Front war. You can view any detail on any unit's current situation and, as in reality, supply and morale will make or break an army. Do you have to concern yourself with these details? No, but it just adds to the immersion...and might also explain why that Panzer Div you sent off to the boonies can't get any more gas.
If you want complexity as well as great graphics, you might want to try the Graviteam Tactics series, also here on Steam. It's an outstanding game too, but more small scale and puts you at eye-level on the combat front.
The price is somewhat steep, but this isn't so much a game as an investment. You'll get your money's worth.
Hope that helped.

[Das Licht]

Here in Germany it was sold for 8 euros in Saturn (Electro-Market)

or the Low-Price Edition (yellow Box) in Media-Market 10 Euro

The developer wants that these versions disappear. The price remains stable and will cost the in 10 years 80 Euro ^^

OK,which should be no reproach. The game is worth a monster and certainly money.
It can not do something with it many only^^

Sry...Google

Zusatz auf Deutsch:

Es ist für wenige Leute gemacht und deshalb sein Geld wert. Und die günstigen Angebote bei uns sind eigentlich ausverkauft. Also Saturn kapiert gar nicht, was sie da verscherbeln. Es sind halt Ladenhüter. Aber ganz ehrlich liebe Entwickler. Warum macht ihr einfach nicht den Sale Preis und lasst ihn dann so. Ihr verkauft mehr, als wie über Jahre ein paar das Game kaufen.

Ich denke 40-45 Euro wären OK. Ich kann verstehen, wenn Steam seine Kralle da noch dran hat und dadurch den Preis möglichst hoch ansetzt. Aber das ist dann das Staubregal, was am Ende bleibt. Solche Spiele haben auf Steam kaum etwas zu suchen, weil genau diese Thread entstehen.

[tommytza]

Maybe just like the very old cars are more expensive, even they are now just a piece of metal garbage with primitive tehnology, in the eyes of nostalgic owners brain-washed by modern marketing milking-money tactics, this game is a piece of jewelry which worth this insane price...:)))

[Bad Wolf]

Originally posted by tommytza:

Maybe just like the very old cars are more expensive, even they are now just a piece of metal garbage with primitive tehnology, in the eyes of nostalgic owners brain-washed by modern marketing milking-money tactics, this game is a piece of jewelry which worth this insane price...:)))

That would be a very rare exception to the rule, as theres hundreds of old gems, full with nostalgia, and I cant recall not even one, that goes for 80 euros, 6+ years after their release.

[Soviet_Union100]

Originally posted by Bad Wolf 24pz:

Originally posted by tommytza:

Maybe just like the very old cars are more expensive, even they are now just a piece of metal garbage with primitive tehnology, in the eyes of nostalgic owners brain-washed by modern marketing milking-money tactics, this game is a piece of jewelry which worth this insane price...:)))

That would be a very rare exception to the rule, as theres hundreds of old gems, full with nostalgia, and I cant recall not even one, that goes for 80 euros, 6+ years after their release.

This is a niche wargame, these games arnt cheap. This one in particular is an extremely detailed simulation. If you say this has "bad graphics" or "simple gameplay" then clearly these kinds of games are not for you. Leave it for real men and go back to your xbox.

[Bad Wolf]

Originally posted by soviet_union100:

Originally posted by Bad Wolf 24pz:

That would be a very rare exception to the rule, as theres hundreds of old gems, full with nostalgia, and I cant recall not even one, that goes for 80 euros, 6+ years after their release.

This is a niche wargame, these games arnt cheap. This one in particular is an extremely detailed simulation. If you say this has "bad graphics" or "simple gameplay" then clearly these kinds of games are not for you. Leave it for real men and go back to your xbox.

Real men. Dont make me laugh mate. Playing any type of video game, doesnt make you a man, be it your CoD shooter, or this armchair general simulation. The fact that theres apparently, this small niche of people, that accept this title for this ludicrous price I accept. I am simply of the opinion, that if it were priced more down to earth, it could attract way more people, myself included.

Also, ive never seen any game of this type, hell ive never even see any game for that matter, being sold for such a price, 6+ years after its release date, so trying to justify the price, by making blanket statements, that are inaccurate to boot, makes no sence.

[Dog (Dog) [Dog] {Dog}]

Originally posted by Denniss:

How many of these games are still supported and updated after six years ?
How many of them are strategic games of this scale?

I would like to add that TOAW3 is $30 and the scale is Mind Blowing with some large scenarios
But otherwise yeah, where can you find games like these

[Soviet_Union100]

Originally posted by Bad Wolf 24pz:

Originally posted by soviet_union100:

This is a niche wargame, these games arnt cheap. This one in particular is an extremely detailed simulation. If you say this has "bad graphics" or "simple gameplay" then clearly these kinds of games are not for you. Leave it for real men and go back to your xbox.

Real men. Dont make me laugh mate. Playing any type of video game, doesnt make you a man, be it your CoD shooter, or this armchair general simulation. The fact that theres apparently, this small niche of people, that accept this title for this ludicrous price I accept. I am simply of the opinion, that if it were priced more down to earth, it could attract way more people, myself included.

Also, ive never seen any game of this type, hell ive never even see any game for that matter, being sold for such a price, 6+ years after its release date, so trying to justify the price, by making blanket statements, that are inaccurate to boot, makes no sence.

Just what a not real man would say.

[Bad Wolf]

Originally posted by soviet_union100:

Originally posted by Bad Wolf 24pz:

Real men. Dont make me laugh mate. Playing any type of video game, doesnt make you a man, be it your CoD shooter, or this armchair general simulation. The fact that theres apparently, this small niche of people, that accept this title for this ludicrous price I accept. I am simply of the opinion, that if it were priced more down to earth, it could attract way more people, myself included.

Also, ive never seen any game of this type, hell ive never even see any game for that matter, being sold for such a price, 6+ years after its release date, so trying to justify the price, by making blanket statements, that are inaccurate to boot, makes no sence.

Just what a not real man would say.

You mean real men dont speak with facts, logic and reason ? I dont know who passes for a real man where you come from, but here, and I reckon anywhere else in the world, if you are dumb, make dumb arguements, and mindlessly defend something its impossible to defend, you are considered sub par.

[PipFromSlitherine]

Guys, keep it civil or I will lock the thread.

Cheers

Pip

[Vapules]

Originally posted by PipFromSlitherine:

Guys, keep it civil or I will lock the thread.

Cheers

Pip

Its happening just like I predicted

[Demolaye]

Originally posted by Bad Wolf 24pz:

1. Also, ive never seen any game of this type, hell ive never even see any game for that matter, being sold for such a price, 6+ years after its release date, so trying to justify the price, by making blanket statements, that are inaccurate to boot, makes no sence. ///
2. Also define supported. What is the nature of this support the game is getting 6 years in exactly ?

- Bad Wolf 24pz, you do not necessarily need to like or understand the pricing system of hardcore wargames as they are an acquired taste and a niche product but; you have made factually incorrect statements without referance or foundation. You as well "asked" a question and have argued with anyone who has offered an answer that you do not agree with, so one may wonder if your OP was "asking" a question or making a statement. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and answer to of your "questions" from my own experiences.

1. To "see" several games of this nature that are in the same price range and often stay so for several years check out the websites for "Matrix", "Battlefront" or Pip's employer "Slitherine" they all have games such as this in the same price range.

2. In refernce to your question about "supported" this game after 6 years still gets regular free updates from the devs/publishers. i.e. Version 1.08.07 is available, 2/10/2016 4:14:29 PM, http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4022211&mpage=1&key=&#4022211

I hope this answers some of your questions.
Cheers.

[Bad Wolf]

Originally posted by Demolaye:

Originally posted by Bad Wolf 24pz:

1. Also, ive never seen any game of this type, hell ive never even see any game for that matter, being sold for such a price, 6+ years after its release date, so trying to justify the price, by making blanket statements, that are inaccurate to boot, makes no sence. ///
2. Also define supported. What is the nature of this support the game is getting 6 years in exactly ?

- Bad Wolf 24pz, you do not necessarily need to like or understand the pricing system of hardcore wargames as they are an acquired taste and a niche product but; you have made factually incorrect statements without referance or foundation. You as well "asked" a question and have argued with anyone who has offered an answer that you do not agree with, so one may wonder if your OP was "asking" a question or making a statement. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and answer to of your "questions" from my own experiences.

1. To "see" several games of this nature that are in the same price range and often stay so for several years check out the websites for "Matrix", "Battlefront" or Pip's employer "Slitherine" they all have games such as this in the same price range.

2. In refernce to your question about "supported" this game after 6 years still gets regular free updates from the devs/publishers.

I hope this answers some of your questions.
Cheers.

My core question was answered within the first comment. After that, all the comments directed at me, were made to somehow justify this pricing, and therefore I responded with counters. So if anything, i didnt start the derailing of this thread, but merely went along with it. As for the "Factual incorrect" statements you claim that I made, by all means, point them out. I did also follow your instructions and searched for Slitherines homepage, that indeed lists all the titles and their respective prices. I didnt find any other game as ludicrously priced. They were all within the 20-50 dollar range, which translates to about 15-40 euros, an entire 30 euros cheaper than what this game goes for here on steam. And these were the boxed prices mind you. The pure download versions, were even cheaper. As for the support you claimed its getting, you didnt really give me any information. What kind of updates is it that this game is getting ?

[Demolaye]

Bad Wolf [24pz], I don't wish to be in an internet pissing contest, my intent was to civilly respond to a few of your statements as I felt you had made some broad statements, that in my experience are just not true. I gave you answers and you checked 1 of 3 of the sites I suggested. Since it seems you intend to see only what you wish to see unless it is spelled out, I will make it easy and paste in the references for you.

A. Matrix Games: developer, distribution and publisher : http://www.matrixgames.com/ ;

1. "World in Flames Matrix Games Edition", Although the Matrix listing says released 2013 - the original version of this game was published 22 Oct 2003. Currently listed at CAD $138.99 - - yeah that's about USD$110, and it a straight board game translation. But what other game has a global map of 70,200 hexes, 250+ countries, 4000+ named locations on the map, and 6000+ unique units? Yes that is 6,000+ uniquely named and built historical units all in 1 scenario. That is what is being paid for a small shop doing that much research for a small audience of people who would actually want to play such a complex and accurate game. Which IMO is the actual topic. These games to be done right require tons of research and they are not marketed to the mass audience because even if the game could be sold for 1/2 the price the mass majority of gamers still would not want to even attempt to play it. (For example to begin to play one must actually read the 552 page Player's Manual, as well the 192 page suplement "Rules as coded". // http://www.matrixgames.com/products/296/details/World.In.Flames,
1a). "World in Flames Map Pack", CAD $138.99 // USD$109.99. // Not a game it is the physical paper maps, of course when put together they are height 9ft (2.75 meters) and length 21ft (6.41 meters). http://www.matrixgames.com/products/519/details/World.in.Flames.Map.Pack,

2. Steel Panthers: World at War - Generals Edition, Release Date: 22 JUN 2000, CAD $69.99, *** This game is 16 years old and is $69.99, ***, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/297/details/Steel.Panthers:.World.at.War.-.Generals.Edition
3. War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition, Release Date: 27 JUL 2009, * * * CAD $110.99 * , http://www.matrixgames.com/products/351/details/War.in.the.Pacific.-.Admiral's.Edition,
4 War In the Pacific, CAD $83.99, Released: June 22, 2004, *** CAD $83.99 ***, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/294/details/War.In.The.Pacific,
5. Gary Grigsby’s World At War: A World Divided, Release Date: 20 OCT 2006, CAD $55.99, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/330/details/Gary.Grigsby's.World.at.War:.A.World.Divided,
6. Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865, CAD $55.99, Release Date: 29 NOV 2006, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/333/details/Forge.of.Freedom:.The.American.Civil.War.1861-1865,
7. Gary Grigsby's War Between The States, Release Date: 11 JUN 2008, CAD $55.99, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/357/details/Gary.Grigsby's.War.Between.The.States,
8. Gary Grigsby’s Eagle Day to Bombing of the Reich, Release Date: 23 SEP 2009, CAD $69.99, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/320/details/Gary.Grigsby's.Eagle.Day.to.Bombing.the.Reich,
9. Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue, Release Date: 16 JUL 2012, CAD $55.99, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/434/details/Decisive.Campaigns:.Case.Blue
10. Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog, Release Date: 19 NOV 2012, CAD $55.99, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/433/details/Close.Combat:.Panthers.in.the.Fog,
11. Distant Worlds: Universe, Release Date: 23 MAY 2013, *** CAD $83.99 ***, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/515/details/Distant.Worlds.-.Universe,
12. Close Combat: Gateway to Caen, Release Date: 5 JAN 2014, CAD $55.99, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/506/details/Close.Combat.-.Gateway.to.Caen,
13. Larry Bond's Harpoon - Ultimate Edition, Release Date: 3 NOV 2010, *** CAD $84.99, ***, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/392/details/Larry.Bond's.Harpoon.-.Ultimate.Edition,

As well in the CAD $55.99 range,
- Battles in Normandy, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/281/details/Battles.In.Normandy,
- Battles in Italy, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/310/details/Battles.in.Italy,
- Battlefront system, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/332/details/Battlefront,
- Carriers at War, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/337/details/Carriers.at.War,
- Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/358/details/Kharkov:.Disaster.on.the.Donets,
- Decisive Campaigns: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/390/details/Decisive.Campaigns:.The.Blitzkrieg.from.Warsaw.to.Paris.,
- Close Combat: The Longest Day, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/368/details/Close.Combat:.The.Longest.Day,
- Panzer Corps Grand Campaign Pack '39 - '45, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/470/details/Panzer.Corps.Grand.Campaign.Mega.Pack.'39.-.'45,
- Crown of Glory: Emperors Edition, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/366/details/Crown.of.Glory:.Emperors.Edition,
- Close Combat - Wacht am Rhein, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/363/details/Close.Combat.-.Wacht.am.Rhein.,
- Close Combat - Cross of Iron, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/335/details/Close.Combat.-.Cross.of.Iron,
- Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/386/details/Close.Combat.-.Last.Stand.Arnhem,
- Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear!, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/424/details/Conflict.of.Heroes:.Awakening.the.Bear!,
- Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/473/details/Conflict.of.Heroes:.Storms.of.Steel,
- Mark H. Walker's Lock 'n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad, http://www.matrixgames.com/products/349/details/Mark.H..Walker's.Lock.'n.Load:.Heroes.of.Stalingrad,

- - - And yes there are more just on Matrix but let's move on...

B. "BattleFront" dev and pub: http://www.battlefront.com/ : Lot's of detail and research in yheir games such as "TAC-Ops" that has been used by several NATO countries as a TAC trainer. Here are just a few of their series that fall into the category we are speaking of.

1. Heres a game that has been around 10+ years keeps getting updates and retails normally at USD-$75, "Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy", http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=36&Itemid=26,

2. It has many variants that retail at about USD-$55, "Combat Mission: Final Blitzkrieg", http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=40&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26 ;
- As well as:
- Combat Mission: Black Sea, USD-$55,
- Combat Mission: Fortress ItalY, USD-$55, http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage_bfc&product_id=321&category_id=37&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26,
- Combat Mission Shock Force (Bundle), USD-$75, (on sale right now for $40),
- There are several more on the sight between 2 and 7 years old that retail about $55,
- There are as well there older products from the start of the Combat mission franchise that are 10+ yerars old that still retail for around$25.

3. The "Strategic Command" series; "Strategic Command World War Two Global Conflict GOLD", retails at $60, now on sale for $45,
- Also includes, "Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg"$60, now on sale for $35, http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage_bfc&product_id=145&category_id=13&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26,

Anyway not to be too literal but you can see here I have presented facts, I believe you have presented opinions.
Get back to me when you have more than an opinion.
- Cheers.

[Bad Wolf]

I did try and search for the other two sites, but since just "matrix" and "batlefront" are such broad terms, nothing of this short came up right away. In any case, I can see that indeed for some weird reason, there is this niche of games that define the norm of the rest of the gaming industry. And as Ive already said previously, I accept this fact. I however, am not inclined to give in, and pay 3 times more than every other genre of game, and for something that to me appears not to even have some deep gameplay aspect. Sure, its ultra realistic, and you have to take into account all these different factors, but at the end of the day, you are clicking icons on a map, and that to me is not that fun, and certainly not worth this ludicrous price.