thoughts about the leveling system

[mr_oluap]

hello !

It seems the devs have been strugling with the experience system lately.

Update #5 made all your templars getting automatically closer to your captain's lvl (1-2 or 3 lvls depending of difficulty).

It was nice because otherwise templars were quickly falling behind.

However it breaked a part of the fun because you didn't need anymore to train your troops, and even guys you never played with were as strong as your favorite veterans.

Also it seemed to have caused, for some reasons, problems with ennemies scaling too fast.

Last update changed that, basically now the minimal experience for your templars is a % of your captain's experience.

I don't see much difference with the situation before update 5 though, and templars are again quickly falling behind captain in terms of level.

I suppose this is related to the swap feature which was introduced very recently, so that devs didn't take into account the fact that most players will switch templars often instead of sticking to a core team.


So i'm wondering if the devs and people in general are satisfied with the system of leveling as it is now ?


Personnally, i don't like the fact that templars fall behind just because you don't bring them every single mission in the game (especially considering that missions are very different and don't have the same cap number of templars you can bring), nor did i love the "auto leveling" system of update #5

My suggestion : stick with the minimal lvl as it is now but give a HUGE exp BONUS to templars who are more than 2 levels behind your captain when they participate and succeed in a mission.

Your thoughts ?

[LeftPaw]

I'm only 6 missions into a new game after the last update, but so far I find the levelling system to be working perfectly, always a challenge without being unfair. I found it was getting very frustrating before this latest fix.

I will let you know if I come up against any problems later in the game.

[Trese Brothers]

Originally posted by mr_oluap:

hello !
So i'm wondering if the devs and people in general are satisfied with the system of leveling as it is now ?


Personnally, i don't like the fact that templars fall behind just because you don't bring them every single mission in the game (especially considering that missions are very different and don't have the same cap number of templars you can bring), nor did i love the "auto leveling" system of update #5

My suggestion : stick with the minimal lvl as it is now but give a HUGE exp BONUS to templars who are more than 2 levels behind your captain when they participate and succeed in a mission.

Your thoughts ?

@mr_oluap - thanks for the post. We have had a bit of an up and down over 1.1.11 and 1.1.13 and we've gotten back to where we want to be.

We are not planning anymore changes in this area.

To give our thoughts on a few things:

The 1.1.11 release introduced a set of rules to help mitigate the changes of Swap and a Dismiss exploit that was in the game. However, these had a few negative impacts -- the enemy level difficulty spiked, and all Templars were given a very high level, regardless of their combat experience. A lot of this was unintentional ripple effect.

In v1.1.13, we've returned to the balance intended for the game:
- The monster level difficulty is where we want it to be.
- Your Templars who are not in combat will not fall as far behind, by a long shot. Before this was based on squad average, where it is now based on the Captain's level and a %. You'll find that your Templars stay far more competitive, but that those Templars who are taken into combat are still going to get ahead of Templars who don't.
- Loosing a Templar became less important because you could re-recruit so easily at such a high level

As an example, with a level 16 Captain, your combat-active vets will be in the 14-16 range. Your non-active vets will be in the 12 range. Bringing them into combat a few times will help them get into the 13 or 14 range faster than the Captain's level will "drag them up". In this scenario, you'd be able to recruit new Templars at 12 -- far enough behind that they aren't your best, but not so far behind that they are impossible to use and level up in the heat of battle.

[mr_oluap]

Thanks for the replies !

@Trese Brothers

Thank you for the explanation i have a better view of what is happening now.

Your example is exactly what i hope for.

I was getting a bit afraid because a few missions after update #6 my captain went lvl 15 while others are only about lvl 10-11, 12 for the two bests. But if it doesn't get worse than that it's good.

Thx for the game i'll leave a good review !

[CoryTrese]

Depending on your difficulty level, they shouldn't fall much more behind than that. As you get closer to Level 20, your "A-Team" should slowly start to catch up with Captain.

The lowest level squad members will lag behind a little bit, but will be granted entire levels, not individual XP points. So they'll stay a consistent distance behind the Captain if you don't use them, or start to catch up slowly when you do.

We spent almost a year balancing the XP and leveling math out ... and then I tried to fix an unrelated bug in v1.1.11 and ... oh dear, chaos unleashed. Luckily we had a safe place to run back to, based on the balancing sheets from the alpha/early access.

I'm here to personally apologize for v1.1.11 and you can throw fruit or tomatoes or whatever is necessary. I'll be in the town square ;)

[Samseng Yik]

Do we get extra starting SP in harder difficulty?

I am going to replay the game in harder difficulty.
Mean everyone kept their level.

If harder difficulty still having same starting SP. Then a level 20 Templar = 100 extra SP hard to get deployed.

[Trese Brothers]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

Do we get extra starting SP in harder difficulty?

I am going to replay the game in harder difficulty.
Mean everyone kept their level.

If harder difficulty still having same starting SP. Then a level 20 Templar = 100 extra SP hard to get deployed.

Starting SP for levels in which you are looking at swapping the Templars does not change. However, the cost of the Templar who is taken into battle is accounted for, so you should be in good shape.

We're looking at putting a cap on how far a Templar's SP can go up based on level. If you get into the 20+ range, it does become too much, definitely agreed.

[LeftPaw]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

Do we get extra starting SP in harder difficulty?

I am going to replay the game in harder difficulty.
Mean everyone kept their level.

If harder difficulty still having same starting SP. Then a level 20 Templar = 100 extra SP hard to get deployed.

I have a similar plan. First I become a expert at the game, then I plan to up the levels and become deadly at the game. That is my plan, and I think it's a good plan. :)

[Samseng Yik]

Originally posted by Trese Brothers:

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

Do we get extra starting SP in harder difficulty?

I am going to replay the game in harder difficulty.
Mean everyone kept their level.

If harder difficulty still having same starting SP. Then a level 20 Templar = 100 extra SP hard to get deployed.

Starting SP for levels in which you are looking at swapping the Templars does not change. However, the cost of the Templar who is taken into battle is accounted for, so you should be in good shape.

We're looking at putting a cap on how far a Templar's SP can go up based on level. If you get into the 20+ range, it does become too much, definitely agreed.

Why this is a good news?
Many mission auto deploy lots of scout and soldiers at start.
And my highest level templars are Paladin/Berserker, level 18 make them 690 SP.
In first play though where unit templar level are around 10, but now 18 (Everyone get 40 SP increase)

[CoryTrese]

It is good news because the developers are on the boards, reading every single post and taking notes.

We're here, listening and absolutely willing to make changes that make the game more fun for everyone.

We're not perfect, not by a long shot but we are here every day.

[Samseng Yik]

OK. I will take a break before go into higher difficulty.

[Trese Brothers]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

OK. I will take a break before go into higher difficulty.

My apologies if I was not clear. Neither the SP cost of a Templar or the SP granted in Swapping levels changes on higher difficulty. I hope that answers the question.

[CoryTrese]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

OK. I will take a break before go into higher difficulty.

Higher difficulty only grants additional XP, which increases the SP you have for your starting deployments. If anything, higher difficulty makes it easier to bring out your Paladin and Berserk, if they are your maximum level troops.

We'll be making some changes in the next update to the game, but they are not aimed at making Swap over-powered, only more flexible for the majority of players. Both Paladin and Berserk are very powerful and not every level can be played with them both.

We're here listening to everyone's feedback and mixing it together so we can produce the best updates possible for all the players who are enjoying Battleforce!

Thanks for posting =)

[219A730]

What's funny I swap unit for healing paladin. Now I find it easier to rush many maps with the default spawn.

[CoryTrese]

Originally posted by 219A730:

What's funny I swap unit for healing paladin. Now I find it easier to rush many maps with the default spawn.

We wanted to make sure that the game is very flexible and that multiple strategies are viable, and healing is no exception.

The Paladin provides excellent, but limited healing which can compete with, or synergize with, Healing Ordnance. While the Paladin could be seen as a healing unit, they also provide some of the best defensive buffs in the game as well as unique attacks.

[219A730]

Paladin's battlefield enhancer is a great buff for team damage, not just team healing. Doesn't stack with itself, so you're encouraged to use different classes for their associated buffs.

Several classes have their own powerful buff that is competitive to battlefield enhancer. Although healing is both newbie and low level friendly, there're as digitalnoise said multiple strategies that're viable. Strategies that prevent damage, and make rushing the map under the turn goal easier.

I find rallying's charge (soldier), power field (engineer), and fortify position (engineer, good to stack with power field) great for rushing. Instead of healing, you try to avoid damage with sensor kit and buffed movement. As a last resort, you can overwatch and depend on buffed armor. I tend to avoid physical contact as much as I can on nightmare mode, except when the tank captain can prevail in melee combat.

It's not as obvious as rushing with battlefield enhancer, but heat reduction from two engineers is great for rushing without overheating. You can vent off heat while on the run with careful positioning.

Dual heat reduction is great if you've any abilities that won't work when overheated. I can rush on overheat with battlefield enhancer, but can't use several good talents due to overheat. There's also the bad situation if the paladin died while your squad is overheating from rushing.

It's very easy to underrate the engineer class in the beginning of the game where most talents are locked. But as I unlock ability after ability, I learned they're a powerful class, not for their firepower, but for their utility. Another example is providing heat reduction for stationary defense from Neptune's suppression fire.

One some maps, staying with the default scout spawn is faster, provided you've the overdrive talent.

That said, high SP cost units are generally more powerful if used correctly.