Gremlins, Inc.

Gremlins, Inc.

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A1CH3M157 Nov 4, 2020 @ 8:44am
Can not play ranked games
So I have completed all single player games. Bought the new DLC and beat those too. Then went on to play multiplayer ranked. out of 6 games I won 1 and maybe came second in another. I haven't been doing anything rediculous like blindly attacking the leader or screwing anyone around. Yet with a recommendation of 13 I somehow received a rating of -13. Now because of this flawed system I am permanently unable to play ranked games. I could stay in que for ranked for hours and not get a single match. So... what is the fix?
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Dr. John Snow  [developer] Nov 4, 2020 @ 9:00pm 
Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
So I have completed all single player games. Bought the new DLC and beat those too. Then went on to play multiplayer ranked. out of 6 games I won 1 and maybe came second in another. I haven't been doing anything rediculous like blindly attacking the leader or screwing anyone around. Yet with a recommendation of 13 I somehow received a rating of -13. Now because of this flawed system I am permanently unable to play ranked games. I could stay in que for ranked for hours and not get a single match. So... what is the fix?

Before thinking about a fix, we need to understand what exactly is happening.

Can you describe the situation?

You played 6 ranked sessions, when?

What is “recommendation of 13”? What is “rating -13”?
A1CH3M157 Nov 4, 2020 @ 9:42pm 
Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I have played about 6 ranked games between mid october until the end of october. Around midnight to 2am EST.
When i click on the box with my name in the main screen it shows me the player my player profile. The thumbs up icon showing number of recommendations is 13.

The cog Icon shows me a reputation (not ranking, sorry for the confusion) of -13. Since the final session I played I am just permanently in que for a ranked game while I see the player traffic grow to 4 or greater and then drop back to just 1 which is me. And that cycle just happens forever.

I thought maybe there is just a problem with an update, but when I go on the asian server I can get onto a ranked game since I assume the profiles are separated between asia and europe.
Qfasa Nov 4, 2020 @ 11:52pm 
Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I have played about 6 ranked games between mid october until the end of october. Around midnight to 2am EST.
When i click on the box with my name in the main screen it shows me the player my player profile. The thumbs up icon showing number of recommendations is 13.

The cog Icon shows me a reputation (not ranking, sorry for the confusion) of -13. Since the final session I played I am just permanently in que for a ranked game while I see the player traffic grow to 4 or greater and then drop back to just 1 which is me. And that cycle just happens forever.

I thought maybe there is just a problem with an update, but when I go on the asian server I can get onto a ranked game since I assume the profiles are separated between asia and europe.
Thank you for the explanation. We'll check the logs but from the top of my head, I have to say that it's quite hard to drop to -13 reputation on EU. Especially, if you managed to achieve that in a matter of 6 sessions, which means that most of your opponents didn't enjoy playing with you for some reason. But we'll check to see what happened in your case.
A1CH3M157 Nov 5, 2020 @ 1:46pm 
ok if you can let me know anything you find that would be greatly appreciated
Dr. John Snow  [developer] Nov 6, 2020 @ 5:35am 
Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
ok if you can let me know anything you find that would be greatly appreciated

Sure, we'll share what we find out. As Qfasa noted, this kind of drop is abnormal.
A1CH3M157 Nov 8, 2020 @ 1:30pm 
So i just read the 2017 update on reuptation. How low reputation players can only play with other low reputation players. Essentially what is happening is people in my situation with low reputation have a theoretical chance to play a ranked game, but in reality with the current game population the chance is virtually zero.
Its obvious that we can't lose reputation based on chat since there is no chat (only emoticons) and the rest is based on judgment of other players which isn't a credible source.

For my case the only thing I can think of is I may have lag since I am in north america. And I play fairly quickly as I do most planning while other players are moving. Maybe players don't like to wait a lag time to play their turn?

The real question is, as a paying customer of your game is it right for me to not be allowed to play ranked (Which is the main draw to the game). Because the reputation system clearly has disabled me from being allowed to play.

At least if there was a system in place where I could rebuild my reputation I would have a chance to come back. From what I have seen, you can only gain reputation in ranked games which translates to, I have zero chance to ever play another ranked game ever again.

That is really odd in online gaming because I have yet to see any online game anywhere where there is a chance you will be prohibited from playing because random individuals don't like you when you haven't done anything wrong. Most games ban you from servers only if you're a hacker.

Will there maybe be an update where we can rebuild rank, lets say on casual games? Or in some other way? Because as you said. a -13 reputation in a low volume of games is quite ridiculous and so far an irreparable factor. As a paying customer its definitely not ok for me to be banned on individuals opinions.
Dr. John Snow  [developer] Nov 8, 2020 @ 7:33pm 
Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
as a paying customer of your game is it right for me to not be allowed to play ranked (Which is the main draw to the game). Because the reputation system clearly has disabled me from being allowed to play.

as I noted above, first we have to know the facts of what has happened, and then we can discuss. at the time, I don't have the facts yet, my colleagues haven't checked the logs, so I cannot speculate on the reasons.

about the statement above: in all but 1 of the previous cases where reputation went negative, the behaviour of players was disruptive to others. I recall 2 specific cases: a person who on average used 200+ emoticons during a session, and person who had 30%+ quit rate because they didn't like to continue once they started losing.

in both cases, low reputation issues by other players means that as a community, players didn't have fun with these players. even though they, too, paid for the game. but the game does not guarantee you that *other players* will want to play with you. you have the chance, but others have no obligation to entertain.

the discussions with the person who kept quitting also showed that he was rude, and attacked others verbally, insulting people on the forums. in the end of that discussion, he got a permanent ban. is this the right thing to do? for me, definitely. we must protect the community from such cases.

again, this is not about your case – I don't know its facts – this is about the other examples when discussions about player reputation happened.

Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
For my case the only thing I can think of is I may have lag since I am in north america. And I play fairly quickly as I do most planning while other players are moving. Maybe players don't like to wait a lag time to play their turn?

I don't know.

for a reputation to become negative, almost every single opponent must issue a negative rate after the session. which is highly unusual. as you can see, we're having a discussion about negative reputation once a year, at most once a half-year.

we'll need to first look at the data to see if this is a true reputation response, or some sort of a bug. at this time, I don't know.

Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
At least if there was a system in place where I could rebuild my reputation I would have a chance to come back. From what I have seen, you can only gain reputation in ranked games which translates to, I have zero chance to ever play another ranked game ever again.

I'm not sure which discussion you followed, but the reputation has a self-repair mechanism, otherwise it would be a one-way street. both for positive and for negative reputation there is a balancing mechanism, so eventually your -13 will become 0.

Originally posted by A1CH3M157:
As a paying customer its definitely not ok for me to be banned on individuals opinions.

I don't know your specific case so let me try to word a statement that is neutral.

when you buy this game, you buy the product. not the service.

we do not sell subscriptions, season passes, ranked passes, etc.

the multiplayer part is wide open for custom games even to players banned from ranked for team play.

the ranked mode, though, obeys certain rules, as it's a community process. and we do not "sell" players to other players. in other words, if someone behaves in a way that others rate them down, such players do not have a "right", by having purchased the game, to expect other players to want to play with them. just to be sure we're clear on this, and no offence!

about your particular case – we'll get to the bottom of what happened, and then check the options. there must be a reason, whether it's a bug (which would be fixable) or some sort of behaviour which you may not realise has been unappreciated (which then we'll see from the logs). the system hasn't malfunctioned before, and if it does now, then please rest assured that we'll trace and fix it.

just let's please keep the discussion to "what happened" and "how this works" and not venture into the territory of "every player who bought the game has the right to have other players thrown into their ranked games regardless of how they play".

I mean, taking the ultimate test – let's say there's a player out of, I don't know, Cape Town, who would experience terrible lags. and who would keep joining your ranked games, making 45-minute sessions into 1 hour 15 minute sessions just because of the wait time.

would you, and 2 other participants, be enjoying this? would this make for a good experience for you? let's speculate that there is no malice, its bad connection. and that such player will keep connecting and connecting and connecting, so that eventually they accumulate negative reputation in ranked.

please let me know what you would do in this purely theoretical case.

in my book, thinking of the community, this represents no malice but bad player experience for others, and so the experience of 30 prevails over the experience of 1.

either way, my colleague will be back with news once he had a chance to investigate the logs.
Qfasa Nov 9, 2020 @ 7:51am 
Here is the raw data: in the past 2 weeks you played 5 ranked sessions and received 9 opinions from your opponents. 5 neutral, 4 negative, 0 positive.

Since it was just a few sessions, I've checked their logs and I can tell that most likely it is about your timing. Sometimes you act fast but there are plenty of instances where your turn takes 10-15-20 seconds. I cannot tell what forces you to take such pauses but they exist.

And what I can tell, is that players rarely enjoy delays that are forced upon them by an opponent, no matter what's the reason for such delays might be. Some of them were unconcerned enough to give you a neutral opinion or not to vote at all; 4 were frustrated to the point where they decided that you deserve a negative reputation; and none of your ~15 recent opponents in ranked sessions had a positive opinion about you and would like to play with you again. Hence the result.

The good thing: it's fixable. Play custom sessions and/or sessions against bots, learn the game, and how to act without delays. By the time when your negative reputation is reduced to the point where you can join ranked sessions again, your playstyle shouldn't cause you such problems anymore (assuming that this is the only issue: I haven't analyzed how you play, what decisions you make, and if they can cause negativity toward you as well).

And just to be sure, I have checked your connection data and I don't think it could cause such issues. Your ping looks very much playable and rarely exceeds 1.000ms. Your pauses during your turns are way longer than that.
Last edited by Qfasa; Nov 9, 2020 @ 7:51am
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Date Posted: Nov 4, 2020 @ 8:44am
Posts: 8