Feedback regarding the Overworld Map

[Alex Utopia]

I personally find the overworld map hard to navigate some times. I regulary misclick things, loose my perspektive and can't find stations I want to go too. I think some little changes would make it more managable.

1. The zoom steps are much too small for me. I feel I have to spin my mouse wheel like a mad man sometimes, just to zoom out or in a little.

2. I find it confusing that every ship and station has an actual little shape representing it AND a symbol. I believe it would look much cleaner if everything would be represented only by one symbol and it would also make it easier to click on things.

3. As far as I can see the 3D perspective serves no real purpose and as such only adds to my confusion sometimes. I always try to keep the map flat, that's where it is most useful to me.

4. I wish you could move the map for example with the arrow keys to look around and find stations further away, I sometimes forget where some stations are and clicking from point to point isn't as effective. Occasionally I simply can't find where I want to go if it's too far away.

PS: I hope that's not too much critic, I always feel bad :) But those are some things that seriously get in my way sometimes and I thought I let you know. Looking forward to hear you on the SGJ Podcast tonight!

[chaosavy]

Thanks for the feedback, no worries.

1 - I'll work on improving the zoom.

2 - This confuses me - I think its great to see the outline of a ship/base/etc to know what it is, not just an icon representing it or its ship class.

3 - Sounds like there's a solution for you already. What is the problem with simply zooming out and rotating? This sounds like a way for you to have what you and for others who do like the 3D map to have what they want.

4 - I'll consider this.


Overall - its a bit hard for me to comprehend this. Every map takes time to learn to know where things are - so while I understand your criticism - I tend to think the solution is for you to play more.

I'll most likely improve the map via adding more visual cues to where the player is to make the learning process faster - but in a "grid" like map versus a "map of the earth" its a bit harder.

[Alex Utopia]

2. I'm zoomed out most of the time, so I don't can't recognize the outline ânyway and it's hard to click on it because it is so small, merly a tiny point. New players might be confused on what to click, symbol or shape. And I personally find the map to be convoluted because of that. I don't want to admire ship shapes in that view, I need to see what's going on in a glimbs and be on my way.

3. The thing is just everytime I want to turn the map, I have to right click and drag it, which will also change the perspective if I'm not careful, it just makes everything take longer as it needs to be in my humble opinion :) And I don't see any use or advantage in it.

------------------

Simplicity and ease of use come always first for me, at least in my own work. In my experience restriction and a lack of features make for a better core experience, flow and ultimatly a supirior endproduct. The map is a tool to get me where I want to go, that sould be as easy as humanly possible first before I add any features to it that distract from that. I know not everybody shares my viewpoint on that. It's like comparing an iPhone to an Android device, sure you can do more with the later, but I think we all know which of them sells best :)

[chaosavy]

Simplicity and ease of use come always first for me, at least in my own work. In my experience restriction and a lack of features make for a better core experience, flow and ultimatly a supirior endproduct.

Sad to say - but you might be in the wrong game!

My games are over complicated and under polished - but there's no other games like it, so for some they are a dream come true. For those less into them - I still hope that they give a unique experience that's enjoyable (despite the shortcomings).

Not saying that there won't be improvements to what you are having issues with - but that's the bottom line. This game could have been finished already if it didn't let the player - fly capital ships, have wingmen, have a RTS mode, have etc etc etc.

[Alex Utopia]

I totally respect that, that's why I bought it man. Sorry for starting a fundamental debate, just wanted to clearify what my viewpoint is and where it comes from, so you know why I say those things. Of course you are not bound by my way of doing things and I still think I'm in the right game :)

And just to emphasise, my biggest issue out of all of them would be the small zoom steps, it really takes forever, that's what bothers me personally most.

[chaosavy]

Glad to hear that - and I mean it in a sort of a joking fashion (wrong game remark). I think its funny someone asking for simplicity here - its not going to happen - I'd have to rip out 70% of the game and re-do the remaining 30%.

As long as I've been programming I've been overcomplicating the apps I've made with too many features. I told this story a bunch - in my first BASIC programming class - there were Option A, B and C assignments. Option C assignments were the most complex but also added +20 points to the grade as a sort of a bonus/incentive.

I'd always chose the option C assignments, get the +20, but lose -30 due to the professor not agreeing with my programming choices (scoring programs that function is a bit weird I guess, he'd take away for "formatting" and "comments").

If I'd chosen option A - the program would be simpler/smaller, I'd finish it sooner, and there would be less areas to take away from the score, but I never did. I'm simply incapable of it - and it overall hurts me and I know it. I could have already released Void Destroyer 3 by now and probably made more money due to faster release cycles and possibly a wider/more satisfied audience (via less things to dislike). But I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, and apparently that's what matters most ;)

[Alex Utopia]

I learned programming in BASIC too, but I'm more of an option A kind guy I suposse :)

But than again, I was never a good programmer, see it more as a nessasary evil to be honest. I worked all my life as a web/logo/UI/designer and that's where my perspektive on usibility comes from.

I think there is a diffrence between having many features and making those features easy to use. I don't have any of those issues with the rest of the game by the way, for me it's just the overworld that lacks a bit of focus on what it is actually supossed to accomplish in terms of mechanics.

But again, don't let me tell you your job of course :) In terms of game development I'm an amateur, working on my first 2D space game at the moment, starting rather small.

[chaosavy]

Its a bit hilarious - your issue (as I understand it) is that you haven't learned the map, you are having a hard time doing this and its difficult finding where you want to go.

So let's try an experiment:

Find the US here:
http://www.mapsofworld.com/north-america/maps/north-america-map.gif

Find the US here:
http://www.nature-education.org/cart/earth-countries-colored.jpg

Find the US here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Planets2013.svg/2000px-Planets2013.svg.png

2. I'm zoomed out most of the time, so I don't can't recognize the outline ânyway and it's hard to click on it because it is so small, merly a tiny point.

You are so zoomed out that you don't recognize the bases - so you haven't learned where bases are in relation to each other. The solution - for you - is to zoom out less - zoom in :)

Again a bit funny.

(also you can drag select a object - so you don't have to click on tiny points)

[Alex Utopia]

My Issue is that it takes full 15 seconds(I just stopped the time), spinning my mouse wheel like a crazy person, to zoom in from minimum to maximum and 15 seconds back again, that alone makes it just extremly hard to navigate.

Otherwise I don't understand your point? How can I see where I'm going when I'm zoomed in? I need to zoom out to get a good look of where I'm in relation to the rest. But when I do, the point that I actually have to click get's so small that's hard to hit. So I would rather prefere no ship/station shape to be there at all and just see the symbols and click on them.

[chaosavy]

There's a zoom speed multiplier in the options menu.

Anyway - I'd love to understand this so maybe let's hook up on Skype screen share sometime in the near future?

[chaosavy]

Zoom should be much improved now.

[Ripheus]

Originally posted by chaosavy:

Find the US here:

It's pretty easy on the first two maps because the mapmaker added floating labels. <nudge nudge> :D

@Alex Utopia
I know this may not be your first choice, but the "intended" map workflow near as I can tell is to zoom out about halfway, whatever is comfortable for you, then 'tip' the camera (rotate it back about 45 degrees). From this view, you have both a sense of depth and a sense of where objects are in relation to each other. Now rotate left and right, waving your cursor over stations/ships in order to read the tooltip about what they are. Compare it to a third person shooter, where this view is used to communicate both where you are and what's around you.

[chaosavy]

It's pretty easy on the first two maps because the mapmaker added floating labels. <nudge nudge> :D

Heh heh - that was part of my half joke.

That description is spot on - in terms of how I use it. Its important for me to see the shapes of the bases - as they are nearly all unique - helps navigate. Zooming out would eliminate that (which - ironically is much faster now).

I'm going ot work on the "floor" of the map and hopefully add in a few more visual cues.

[Ripheus]

Sir Paul, I'm being 100% honest with you when I say that I have 91 hours in Void Destroyer 2 and I can't tell the different stations apart by outline. I can kind of tell if a station is Lion/Shark, but I can't tell which of the two it is. If floating labels are absolutely verboten, then please consider giving each station a unique icon. (A palm tree for palm, a gamma for FOB Gamma, etc.)

[[57th] AngryHatter]

Have the keyboard commands been altered?
I can no longer use WASD to orient the map, declination, inclination, yaw etc
Now I am using only the mouse and it is not easy for me.

I can sometimes enter the map with velocity at 0 and yet when the map comes up I am at full throttle off to I don't know where.

I also find sometimes all the labels disappear?
I can hover over a base but nothing shows.

(Not trying to hijack thread - I thought to keep it in one place)

The icons are nice.

[chaosavy]

Map?

Keyboard wasn't altered - you could never use WASD in Overworld mode (what I'm assuming you mean by "map").

There were never labels.

Not sure about your other comments - clarify?