Why I am never buying anything from Nexon/Neople agian.

[Kaizen]

I recently ran into a problem with First Assault.
Long story short, I got a ban without warning, confirmation and with no chance of appeal. Just cryptic messages.

I have played Nexon's games for some years, starting with War Rock, then Combat Arms and finally Ghost in the Shell, and this will be my last.

War Rock was okay, and I was instilled with confidence when I saw the anti hacking measures.
I was sadly disappointed. Match after match, my team had grenades dopped at their feet.
>Nope.avi

Combat arms. Again, "okay". I didn't quite get the concept of renting weapons, but whatever, I played for a bit, but it wasn't for me.

Ghost in the Shell? Awesome. I'll pay to support that. So I did. £23.
For a technicians apprentice, that is half a days wages.

I hadn't played for 6 months, then I play a couple of matches one evening then call it quits.
A week later I try to log in.

"Server disconnect error 8"

Huh? Maybe I need an update.

"This account is restricted."

Wuh-what?

Ghost tech support:

"Due to security reasons, I can't provide details regarding your ban."

So basically.....you don't know why....but you're going to enforce it anyway.

I appealed the ban, as according the the ban guidelines:
https://support-firstassault.nexon.net/hc/en-us/articles/207270013-First-Assault-Banning-Guidelines

A few steps had been skipped on my way to a permaban.

"The ban was *issued* by a head GM. So you can't take it any further."

Fine, since I'm being refused access to content I paid for without a solid reason backed by hard evidence, I'd like a refund.

"We have a no refund policy."

Yep, okay.

You don't want to give me my money back? Fine. But that is the last you'll ever get from me.

If I had received a refund, I probably would have overlooked the whole situation and started a new account and bought back what I had. Maybe more to get back to where I was. I would have continued being a paying customer.

But now I will religiously avoid any game that has nexon/neople attached to it and I will make sure to bring up this case every opportunity the topic arises.

Friends at work, friends at the track meet, facebook and everyone's favourite edgey imageboard.

At the end of the day, it is a humbling thought that I don't need your game to survive, but you need the players money.
And you really know how to keep your paying customers.

"We thank you for your understanding."


Before any wise guys pipe up, no, I wasn't hacking/cheating.

[CyBeR Junky]

Bad suport crapy game = no more €A$H for them :-(

[Codeman02Fr]

next time record your party and avoid to start your cheat engine or wtf else while playing .

[Oain]

the support team is still wrong. dont even have a refund policiy? and they are treating their customers like trash. its bad. my opinion has changed greatly on this company. especially the guy that keep locking threads.

[No Lives Matter]

Yet you didn't try A.v.A. when it was good ? Aww

[Vxmpire]

I learned to keep my programming on a separate user account on my computer, because most anti-hack software scans running processes and local files for anything that could interfere with the running application. I Got a perma-ban on Battle Eye because of it and there support system is very similar, and honestly I understand because there really is no good way to know that I wasn't trying to manipulate my game in some way. So the moral of the story is be careful if you do any kind of advanced computer work, it can get you in trouble. Or all this is irrelivent and your just phising for simpathy.

[Slaughterer]

Vxmpire původně napsal:

I learned to keep my programming on a separate user account on my computer, because most anti-hack software scans running processes and local files for anything that could interfere with the running application. I Got a perma-ban on Battle Eye because of it and there support system is very similar, and honestly I understand because there really is no good way to know that I wasn't trying to manipulate my game in some way. So the moral of the story is be careful if you do any kind of advanced computer work, it can get you in trouble. Or all this is irrelivent and your just phising for simpathy.

There absolutely is, i know this and i'm not even a programmer.
You do a clean install on a test machine, with ram-checking enabled on the GITS client.
You then create an encrypted size/state check, like a CRC or MD5.
You then run that check multiple times a match, if memory size/state doesn't match stock for the game, kick client from server.
If CRC check doesn't match when client attempts to join, kick.
If this happens multiple times, staff should investigate and get memory dump sent from client.

All of this is perfectly legal with or without EULA and irrelevant of local laws.

[JtDarth]

>> Pure Phoenix >> původně napsal:

Vxmpire původně napsal:

I learned to keep my programming on a separate user account on my computer, because most anti-hack software scans running processes and local files for anything that could interfere with the running application. I Got a perma-ban on Battle Eye because of it and there support system is very similar, and honestly I understand because there really is no good way to know that I wasn't trying to manipulate my game in some way. So the moral of the story is be careful if you do any kind of advanced computer work, it can get you in trouble. Or all this is irrelivent and your just phising for simpathy.

There absolutely is, i know this and i'm not even a programmer.
You do a clean install on a test machine, with ram-checking enabled on the GITS client.
You then create an encrypted size/state check, like a CRC or MD5.
You then run that check multiple times a match, if memory size/state doesn't match stock for the game, kick client from server.
If CRC check doesn't match when client attempts to join, kick.
If this happens multiple times, staff should investigate and get memory dump sent from client.

All of this is perfectly legal with or without EULA and irrelevant of local laws.

Except that CRC and MD5 checks can have legitimate issues, when users have slower download rates or don't download all in one session.
The other suggestion of running a in use memory check wouldn't work because it would automatically boot out anything that uses an OSD, like fraps, steam's own overlay, OBS, and a ton of other programs that have various legitimate use.

The simplest solution would be for people to just ensure that they aren't running any hex editors in the background, be it cheat engine or something else.

FYI, unless specifically mentioned in an EULA/TOS, forced sending of non-game data without explicit user permission, whether via agreement in the EULA/TOS or via an in-game setting that lets you opt out (the 'memory dump' you mentioned) is illegal, and is very much spying.

[Slaughterer]

DarthNachoz původně napsal:

Except that CRC and MD5 checks can have legitimate issues, when users have slower download rates or don't download all in one session.
The other suggestion of running a in use memory check wouldn't work because it would automatically boot out anything that uses an OSD, like fraps, steam's own overlay, OBS, and a ton of other programs that have various legitimate use.

The simplest solution would be for people to just ensure that they aren't running any hex editors in the background, be it cheat engine or something else.

FYI, unless specifically mentioned in an EULA/TOS, forced sending of non-game data without explicit user permission, whether via agreement in the EULA/TOS or via an in-game setting that lets you opt out (the 'memory dump' you mentioned) is illegal, and is very much spying.

1. download rates? What? This is all done client-side, internet speed is irrelevant. The only way to get around it is to use a hacked exe, which the external Anti-Cheat would detect, BlackCipher.
2. No, they don't hook into the game exe, they record the OpenGL or D3D layers (or modify them directly). This is how current cheaters avoid detection even while streaming to Twitch or YT; The game runs in say OpenGL so the hack overlays in D3D. SMall performance hit but keeps it OFF the overlay being recorded. Visually no difference.
3. Windows itself is a hex editor, notice hex is stored when an app crashes and a log is compiled of the faulty segment?

[JtDarth]

>> Pure Phoenix >> původně napsal:

DarthNachoz původně napsal:

Except that CRC and MD5 checks can have legitimate issues, when users have slower download rates or don't download all in one session.
The other suggestion of running a in use memory check wouldn't work because it would automatically boot out anything that uses an OSD, like fraps, steam's own overlay, OBS, and a ton of other programs that have various legitimate use.

The simplest solution would be for people to just ensure that they aren't running any hex editors in the background, be it cheat engine or something else.

FYI, unless specifically mentioned in an EULA/TOS, forced sending of non-game data without explicit user permission, whether via agreement in the EULA/TOS or via an in-game setting that lets you opt out (the 'memory dump' you mentioned) is illegal, and is very much spying.

1. download rates? What? This is all done client-side, internet speed is irrelevant. The only way to get around it is to use a hacked exe, which the external Anti-Cheat would detect, BlackCipher.
2. No, they don't hook into the game exe, they record the OpenGL or D3D layers (or modify them directly). This is how current cheaters avoid detection even while streaming to Twitch or YT; The game runs in say OpenGL so the hack overlays in D3D. SMall performance hit but keeps it OFF the overlay being recorded. Visually no difference.
3. Windows itself is a hex editor, notice hex is stored when an app crashes and a log is compiled of the faulty segment?

1. If a download is interrupted or otherwise not perfect, it messes with the hash (which would be your CRC/MD5), which can cause major issues, including forcing someone to re-download. It's not a particularly common problem, but it is a potential one.
2. They don't hook into the game .exe, but then, you don't have to hook into the game .exe to enable certain types of cheat. You could for example, use a dll hook to force a hard render of invisible motoko using alternate shading. Look up what ENB is, shading changes from an ENB could very easily qualify as a cheat.
I'm sure someone more versed could even potentially force transparencies on some other things, like Maven's shield.

3. There is a difference between hex checking/reading, and hex modification. There isn't a single program that comes with windows that lets one actually modify hex code. Even the one that you mention isn't actually reading the hex. It's pulling the fault from where it fails IN WINDOWS, not the application itself. In other words, an OOM error will show the windows hex code relating to the memory that it attempted to access when it failed, not the section of code in the program that specifically requested that memory.
Same goes for video errors, it will pull the fault location, but not actual hex code from the failing video driver.
The crash log does not allow one to read or modify the code of applications via in-memory edits, which is what I meant by messing with hex.