Walking simulator?

[Smiskeriminister]

Just curious how/why this game has been classified as a walking simulator?

A walking simulator is traditionally a game where you can't die, where you keep walking with very few (if any) challenges standing in your way. The games normally focus on the narrative experience, not so much gameplay or character deaths. Dear Esther and The Stanley Parable would be good examples.

But in Through the Woods, there are enemies. They can kill you, they have some simple AI, and you have to hide from them or actively fend them off. You have to do something not to die in several places. To me, this breaks with the genre in such a substantial way that it would be wrong to call it a walking simulator.

Any thoughts on this?

[Vylun]

Thanks, much appreciated! We had no intention for Through the Woods to be classified as a walking sim, although one does walk a lot and there could be more interaction.

[Stigma]

No, it's more like a survival horror without combat, focusing on monster evasion. But those sections are sparse enough to make some people *think* it's a walking sim..

[Velarune]

Well I'm half way through chapter 2 and I have to say that it's definitely a walking simulator, if you want to use that term. There has been two trolls, which posed absolutely no threat at all, and the rest of the game has been walking or running around with the odd item to pick up here and there. I'm going to assume that the rest of the game doesn't change very much. So if 90% of the game is just wandering around not really doing much, then that could be classified as a walking simulator.

[Vylun]

It also depends a bit on how you play the game. Some players find the enemies very hard while others have no issues getting past them. Some players spend hours exploring, others just run through, not bothering to read any pick-ups. There's a lot of running because we wanted the path to feel long and the forest big.

You can interact with different items and also interact in different ways with enemies, even with weapons, through the whole game. You can sneak around and hide from them too. The environment changes to a certain degree. There's a constant story going on.

The term 'walking sim' is an insult to all devs making story driven games and don't feel like puzzles or advanced combat would be realistic or adds to the concept. As if the game was created to just be walking slowly forwards without any goal or intent. 'Walking Sim" should be used for games where you actually have to control the legs to move forwards, maybe even advanced VR.

[Velarune]

Yeah, the term isn't something I like to use since it was basically created as an insulting thing. Most people use it for that purpose. If something is slower paced or doesn't have an explosion every second then people will start slinging insults, which is the sad reality of modern gaming society. If I had to use a proper term for what I was saying, then I would probably say that the game is empty.

I think you guys did a fantastic job with the level design and the atmosphere. It's probably the most convincing walk I've taken through a forest in a game. There is a sense of relaxation and being able to enjoy the scenery, but a bit of creepiness or feeling uncomfortable with not knowing if something is perhaps watching what you're doing. The different events that take place, like the bits of story, item collecting, etc., is all interesting as well.

Unfortunately, it's the space in between those events that is empty. It becomes very dull as the game goes on since there's way too many of those empty spaces where you're just running to the next event. An easy way to have avoided that would have been to create more of a threat from the creatures.

For example, the first troll could have become something that stalks you. Instead of it being something that you simply run past and never worry about again, it could have followed the player and showed up at different times along the road. That would create tension and give more depth to those empty spaces, because now the player never knows when they're being watched and going to get attacked. Even just a simple growl from the trees or a quick glimpse of an eye that disappears would keep people on their toes.

It's fine to make a story driven game, but there has to be at least something that carries the player from one event to the next. It's all about pacing and keeping the flow going. If a game picks up with whatever is taking place, but then immediately flat lines right after, that's where a person starts to get bored, and where the insults like walking simulator start getting thrown around.

Anyway, that's just my own game developer brain speaking. I tend to take other people's games and look at what could be improved if I was to make something like that. Keep doing what you're doing. You got the right ideas, they just need to maybe be fleshed out a little bit more.

[Vylun]

Sorry if my previous post was blunt. The game could definitely be much more complex if we had the time and budget - A lot of elements like you mention had to be cut.

I'm working with Audvyr Studio now on a new game called The Fold: Ingression that will be more in that direction.

Thanks for your detailed feedback :)

[Smiskeriminister]

Just want to say, I really appreciate the developer taking the time to respond and engage here. Thank you, Voden!

I still don't think this qualifies as a walking simulator game; there are several other situations other than the trolls where you have to interact to avoid death and progress, with quite a bit of tension (especially the "shrieking banshee" killing me repeatedly - was it a hulder, or... ?). Gave me a bit of a surprise since I was looking for a conflict-free narrative walking simulator type game at the time, and this game had the walking simulator tag.

But sure, it's closer to being a walking simulator than a lot of other games out there. I think I'd put it somewhere between Dear Esther and Amnesia in terms of walking simulator-ness.

[Vylun]

Much appreciated and my pleasure!

I agree with your last statement and wish we were able to bring in even more. The members of the team also had different ideas of what kind of game it should be and there were actually some who wanted it to be a walking sim initially. Others, including me, wanted more survival elements. I guess it's ended up between the two.

[Velarune]

Originally posted by Voden:

Sorry if my previous post was blunt. The game could definitely be much more complex if we had the time and budget - A lot of elements like you mention had to be cut.

I'm working with Audvyr Studio now on a new game called The Fold: Ingression that will be more in that direction.

Thanks for your detailed feedback :)

Sounds good. I'll keep an eye out and see how things turn out.

Originally posted by Smiskeriminister:

Just want to say, I really appreciate the developer taking the time to respond and engage here. Thank you, Voden!

I still don't think this qualifies as a walking simulator game; there are several other situations other than the trolls where you have to interact to avoid death and progress, with quite a bit of tension (especially the "shrieking banshee" killing me repeatedly - was it a hulder, or... ?). Gave me a bit of a surprise since I was looking for a conflict-free narrative walking simulator type game at the time, and this game had the walking simulator tag.

But sure, it's closer to being a walking simulator than a lot of other games out there. I think I'd put it somewhere between Dear Esther and Amnesia in terms of walking simulator-ness.

I don't really know much about the walking simulator style of games because I tend to avoid them. I find them to be extremely slow and boring. Like Gone Home for example. You wander around a house, find random bits of information, and it ends with finding out your sister is a lesbian and ran away. May as well have left a note on the front door saying "I like girls, seeya later." Cue the game over screen. There was no purpose to the game besides being a time waster.

At least this game has a story that seems to be leading to something. You've got some viking dude that has taken your kid, and you're trying to track them down for some form of conclusion. Mix in some spookiness from the creatures, some different bits of world building scattered around, and it's a decent enough adventure game. It's just those slow parts in between that really drag things down, and that's where people would start labelling it as a walking simulator. During those in between sections is where it definitely starts to feel like your typical walking style of game.

But you can't please everyone. Some people really love that type of stuff. Sometimes I don't mind it. It all depends on the situation, and how interesting the overall experience is.

[Vylun]

Well said :)

[Smiskeriminister]

Originally posted by Fenixx:

I don't really know much about the walking simulator style of games because I tend to avoid them. I find them to be extremely slow and boring. Like Gone Home for example.

I never liked Gone Home much myself. Fell asleep a few times while playing it. Appreciated the atmosphere and the idea though, but the story and gameplay didn't really grab me.

Here are a few games I'd consider better than Gone Home, and might be worth checking out if you want to explore the "genre" before you decide it's not for you.

The Invisible Hours
The Novelist
Proteus
Night in the Woods
TIMEframe
The Vanishing of Ethan Carter
The Stanley Parable
Dr. Langeskov, The Tiger, and The Terribly Cursed Emerald: A Whirlwind Heist (can be played for free!)

But we all have different tastes! No game can please everyone, definitely.

[Velarune]

It all depends on what kind of mood I happen to be in. Lately I've been going through an adventure game phase, playing the older point and click games. That's what led me to this game, since I got it as part of an adventure game bundle on Fanatical. But I'll keep those ones in mind if I'm looking for something slower paced.