New Game + is a mess

[MrPlowjoy]

What were they thinking?

DLC characters that are "locked" because the DLC hasn't been completed yet for each, are meandering about the Sanctuary. I was able to take Hulk on a mission to stop Possessed Hulk.

Then, they still leave all the cut-scenes in place. This has to be the worst example of "Press Escape To Skip" I've ever seen in video game.

Finally, you complete New Game + and the game congratulates you with a message that New Game + is now available.

Such a lazy way to extend the replayability. I did it again to try a different set of heroes in combat and to go down the dark path with Hunter but even that makes zero difference to anything, apart from getting a collar with a different passive.

What saves it, somewhat, is the core game loop is really excellent and the music score is sublime. Possibly one of the best I've ever heard in a video game, it perfectly matches the action.

It's a game teetering on the edge of greatness but bad design like New Game + and the mostly woeful and agonising Sims aspects to it, that really is just padding for the most part, hold it back.

[Eldarelf]

I agree, the game is a bug filled mess, that breaks, or does stupid things if you advance in a way different to how the developers think you should.

After X-Com 3 experiences, which were not as bad as this games issues, I should have steered clear, but well it was a marvel game that wasn't a browser game that empties your bank account ( don't do those people let them wither and die ).

Shame really, Sid Meier created some great games, then came along the buggy XCOM-3 and this pile of broken dung

[blkbutterfly]

Originally posted by MrPlowjoy:

I was able to take Hulk on a mission to stop Possessed Hulk.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3006858675
Hulk smash Hulk.

[Zloth]

I get the feeling it isn't "lazy," it's "oh crap, we're out of money and/or the sales forecast looks bleak; fix anything game breaking and get it out the door."

Originally posted by blkbutterfly:

Hulk smash Hulk.

To be fair, heroes fighting themselves isn't all that rare in the comics. ;)

[wpegg]

The heroes fighting themselves thing isn't really a fault. It's just that NG+ is opened up to allow you to play with the mechanics rather than being about the story. The only reason the story is there is so you can take your new souped up squad out for a ride on the story missions. Once you complete the main game all the dead characters like Sabertooth come back even without NG+, it's just the game saying "The story's done, here's a small sandbox".

[MrPlowjoy]

Originally posted by wpegg:

The heroes fighting themselves thing isn't really a fault. It's just that NG+ is opened up to allow you to play with the mechanics rather than being about the story. The only reason the story is there is so you can take your new souped up squad out for a ride on the story missions. Once you complete the main game all the dead characters like Sabertooth come back even without NG+, it's just the game saying "The story's done, here's a small sandbox".

Of course, so why have the story in there at all for NG+?

Just do away with all the sims rubbish, remove all the story points, remove all the cut scenes and build out a mission progression path based on hero level.

Heroes fighting heroes is a fault, when you're forced to work through the same story. It's absurd that I'm flattering Deadpool by the poolside when I don't even know who he is yet.

[7zH]

Originally posted by Eldarelf:

I agree, the game is a bug filled mess, that breaks, or does stupid things if you advance in a way different to how the developers think you should.

After X-Com 3 experiences, which were not as bad as this games issues, I should have steered clear, but well it was a marvel game that wasn't a browser game that empties your bank account ( don't do those people let them wither and die ).

Shame really, Sid Meier created some great games, then came along the buggy XCOM-3 and this pile of broken dung

What XCOM 3 my dude? How much have you smoked? Chimera Squad isnt XCOM 3, it's a spinoff project that wasnt even handled by Jake Solomon. And the game happened, because they wanted to get feedback on some new mechanics.

[undeadpriest94]

Originally posted by 7zH:

Originally posted by Eldarelf:

I agree, the game is a bug filled mess, that breaks, or does stupid things if you advance in a way different to how the developers think you should.

After X-Com 3 experiences, which were not as bad as this games issues, I should have steered clear, but well it was a marvel game that wasn't a browser game that empties your bank account ( don't do those people let them wither and die ).

Shame really, Sid Meier created some great games, then came along the buggy XCOM-3 and this pile of broken dung

What XCOM 3 my dude? How much have you smoked? Chimera Squad isnt XCOM 3, it's a spinoff project that wasnt even handled by Jake Solomon. And the game happened, because they wanted to get feedback on some new mechanics.

That's what I'd been assuming he meant by "XCOM 3".
I will say, for a game that Jake didn't handle, he sure did take a lot of elements from it.

[A Disembodied Intelligence]

Originally posted by Zloth:

I get the feeling it isn't "lazy," it's "oh crap, we're out of money and/or the sales forecast looks bleak; fix anything game breaking and get it out the door."

Originally posted by blkbutterfly:

Hulk smash Hulk.

To be fair, heroes fighting themselves isn't all that rare in the comics. ;)

I do wonder what would've happened if the game had just been given 6 more months of development and come out in June. Barely anything high profile was coming out in June, it would've given Marvel Snap's hype a chance to die down (saw a not insignificant amount of reviewers on release comparing it to that), and it would've given the dev team a pretty good amount of additional time to work on the bugs.

I know it wasn't the only thing that was going against it on release, but it really didn't help, it was a terrible terrible release window lol. If you look at things like Persona 5 and Monster Hunter World, they both became hugely popular releasing in a drought, May/June 2023 would've been a good drought to release in too.

Oh well, no way to change the past, but What Ifs are fun to think about.

--
As for Heroes on Heroes in NewGame+... I like it!

NewGame+ is your dumb fun victory lap. Having all the Heroes from the start is the game saying have as much fun as you like, maybe finish those friendships and stuff you didn't finish in your first playthrough, it's not meant to be the canonical story experience.

I think this is an odd complaint lol.

Would've liked more Difficulty options added to NewGame+ though personally.

[Zebedee]

I think it is intentional to have them like that, if they weren't there then there'd be complaints in the other direction - just how it goes, but I wish there were a toggle option for it. NG+ was kind of sketchy to start with, the patch it got helped a lot, although some more customisation to it would be nice.

---

Suspect release window was 2k making a financial decision to try and pull in sales for that quarter (it didn't work, job cuts followed etc.). And, to try to be fair, game had been delayed a fair bit to give Firaxis chance to try and polish up the Abbey. NG+ just wasn't thought through though - Joe Weinhoffer is on record saying that he wished he had a time machine to go back to when it was initially implemented to put in the features which they had to patch in post-launch.

[WinterVision]

It is kind of weird for Magik and Nico to be complaining about Wanda missing while she's down the hall playing piano

[blkbutterfly]

Originally posted by WinterVision:

It is kind of weird for Magik and Nico to be complaining about Wanda missing while she's down the hall playing piano

Yeah, the narrative is messed up! lol

[MysticalPotato]

Originally posted by Eldarelf:

I agree, the game is a bug filled mess, that breaks, or does stupid things if you advance in a way different to how the developers think you should.

After X-Com 3 experiences, which were not as bad as this games issues, I should have steered clear, but well it was a marvel game that wasn't a browser game that empties your bank account ( don't do those people let them wither and die ).

Shame really, Sid Meier created some great games, then came along the buggy XCOM-3 and this pile of broken dung

XCOM 3? Ummm....There is no XCOM 3 dude.

[TheSuit]

What you are asking for would be adding a completely new storyline and tens of thousand of new dialog to explain having same characters.

New Game + is just meant like all games having everything unlocked and redoing the game again on harder difficulty

[MrPlowjoy]

Originally posted by TheSuit:

What you are asking for would be adding a completely new storyline and tens of thousand of new dialog to explain having same characters.

New Game + is just meant like all games having everything unlocked and redoing the game again on harder difficulty

No it wouldn't.

At a minimum, remove the unlocked DLC characters and keep them in the story progression.

At medium, remove the abbey and cut-scenes entirely.

At best, remove the story completely and build out a mission tree structure that operates from a static interface. Removing all the abbey and sims nonsense. The simplicity of such a thing cannot be understated, as if you take the abbey, missions and story away, that's literally all there is underneath it. A mission tree, with key missions and general missions scattered across multiple locations and logic that says "You must do a general mission before you can do a main mission".

Stop excusing bad design but whilst you're at it, how do you excuse completing NG+ showing a message that you can now play NG+?

[Phantus]

I find it unnecessarily punishing that you have to repeat those tedious challenges in new game+. It's such a drag on the game that it ruins replayability for me. Zero good reason to have to do that more than once....ever.