Iron Man is a liability on higher difficulties

[EvilRobot69]

On higher difficulties, allies tend to get KO'ed a lot faster because the enemies deal more damage (and you deal proportionately less because they have higher health). Generally this isn't too much of a problem as long as you are okay with getting 1-star victory results.

The problem is what to do with ally cards after you've already used your revive ability. For most heroes, it's as simple as redrawing their cards to get some you can use. However, unlike most other hero's cards, Iron Man's cards tend to have the functionality of "Redraw for X". Which means for his basic cards, you have to redraw most of his cards twice to get rid of them. And some cards you cannot get rid of at all.

Each card that cannot be replaced is taking up space in your hand, denying you new cards that could help you win the fight. So if Iron Man goes down in a prolonged fight... your life will start getting that much harder.

[RamboRusina]

Iron Man is probably the best character in the game. He doesn't need heavily modded decks with all the cards to hack it through hardest difficulty which can't be said from many characters(assuming you are going for 3 stars). He has AoE mark + vulnerable, AoE abilities to wipe most units and single target burst that can one shot most bosses and double heroism either for himself or for others. His deck is insane and very easy to use.

[Zebedee]

I don't mind there being a flipside to Ironman's ability to fill your hand. Even some of the redraw issues can be worked around (if you're taking Ironman then you know lots of redraw is an advantage). But I do think the cards which can take infinite redraw should also have an option to redraw to discard at some point (also applies to one of Charlie's cards).

[Overlord Byron]

I agree. It was a weird choice to not allow proper redraws for Iron Man's cards when you simply want to get rid of them. I don't believe the other characters' core features are double-edged like that (Nico being the obvious exception)

[Ryeon]

That only becomes the downside of Iron Man if you don't build around him. Because a proper Air Superiority or Hellfire Blast deck doesn't have a single Iron Man card that you'd want to get rid out of your hand, except maybe his Hero Combo card...

[Chadwick Strongpants]

Originally posted by Overlord Byron:

I agree. It was a weird choice to not allow proper redraws for Iron Man's cards when you simply want to get rid of them.

That's literally how the character is meant to be played. Iron Man is strong, but it comes at the cost of not having as much flexibility with his redraws. You're supposed to adapt and play around that.

If you were able to just discard any of his cards willy-nilly, that would totally defeat the point of his risk versus reward mechanic and probably lead to him being overpowered as well.

[snuggleform]

Please do not exaggerate by saying "some cards cannot get rid of at all." There is only one of his cards that is like that, not "some."

[Overlord Byron]

Originally posted by Copper Knight:

Originally posted by Overlord Byron:

I agree. It was a weird choice to not allow proper redraws for Iron Man's cards when you simply want to get rid of them.

That's literally how the character is meant to be played. Iron Man is strong, but it comes at the cost of not having as much flexibility with his redraws. You're supposed to adapt and play around that.

If you were able to just discard any of his cards willy-nilly, that would totally defeat the point of his risk versus reward mechanic and probably lead to him being overpowered as well.

The drawback is already built into his deck: without redrawing, Iron Man punches below his weight level. Same with Strange and low heroism, Marvel without binary, Blade without bleed, and Hulk without rage. Those heroes are meh without their core mechanic(at least from in terms if damage), and very strong with their core mechanic. Unlike those heroes, Iron Man's core mechanic comes with a double edged sword. You're already burning a resource to bring him up to spec, but his cards ALSO can't be discarded as normal. Which means he can brick independently of deck or party composition.

It's a compound weakness that his overall strength and abilities don't justify. Saying it's risk/reward doesn't cover it, and I'd argue it's not even true. There's no uncertainty in what you get when you redraw an Iron Man card, and he monopolized the resource you use to gamble. If anything, Iron Man reduces the number of gambles you're able to take.

[Chadwick Strongpants]

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

But... why would I want to build around him? Other characters are simply better for the tasks I would need him to cover.

Even if that is true, some players just enjoy having him in the team and utilizing his mechanics. Whether other characters "do it better" really should be of no concern in a casual singleplayer game.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

Originally posted by Ryeon:

That only becomes the downside of Iron Man if you don't build around him. Because a proper Air Superiority or Hellfire Blast deck doesn't have a single Iron Man card that you'd want to get rid out of your hand, except maybe his Hero Combo card...

But... why would I want to build around him? Other characters are simply better for the tasks I would need him to cover. Wolverine is easily more durable than him and does about as much or more damage.

He's easily one of the weakest heroes on high difficulties. Hulk is, pardon the pun, incredible. Combine with Hunter's mindbender skill (easily the most overpowered skill in the game), and you have an incredibly durable and dangerous team. Ghost Rider is also great to work with because he can put out an incredible amount of damage with the right skills.

He literally gave you the answer in two words: "Air Superiority."

[EvilRobot69]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

But... why would I want to build around him? Other characters are simply better for the tasks I would need him to cover. Wolverine is easily more durable than him and does about as much or more damage.

He's easily one of the weakest heroes on high difficulties. Hulk is, pardon the pun, incredible. Combine with Hunter's mindbender skill (easily the most overpowered skill in the game), and you have an incredibly durable and dangerous team. Ghost Rider is also great to work with because he can put out an incredible amount of damage with the right skills.

He literally gave you the answer in two words: "Air Superiority."

You... do understand how the health scaling for enemies works at high difficulties, yeah? Air Superiority quickly becomes inferior because its damage output doesn't keep up.

[daffius911]

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

Originally posted by Ryeon:

That only becomes the downside of Iron Man if you don't build around him. Because a proper Air Superiority or Hellfire Blast deck doesn't have a single Iron Man card that you'd want to get rid out of your hand, except maybe his Hero Combo card...

But... why would I want to build around him? Other characters are simply better for the tasks I would need him to cover. Wolverine is easily more durable than him and does about as much or more damage.

More damage? No way. His main downside and what makes Wolverine one of the worst heroes imho is the fact he can't damage. On higher difficulties he is pretty much useless. What he is good for is to taunt everything and since he is the only one you can revive, you get a free turn.

[ericknirvana]

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

Originally posted by snuggleform:

He literally gave you the answer in two words: "Air Superiority."

You... do understand how the health scaling for enemies works at high difficulties, yeah? Air Superiority quickly becomes inferior because its damage output doesn't keep up.

yeah on ult 3 when i had an iron man mission i always had to "leave it to him" i had to bring some redraw items so i can redraw his cards twice and replace them if needed. I dont think its iron man i think ult 3 is just unforgiving. which is why i moved back to heroic I and im actually playing the game again.
Now i can bring spiderman magik and iron man and barely beat the mission instead of trying to perfect items, cards and hero combos.

[EvilRobot69]

Originally posted by daffius911:

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

But... why would I want to build around him? Other characters are simply better for the tasks I would need him to cover. Wolverine is easily more durable than him and does about as much or more damage.

More damage? No way. His main downside and what makes Wolverine one of the worst heroes imho is the fact he can't damage. On higher difficulties he is pretty much useless. What he is good for is to taunt everything and since he is the only one you can revive, you get a free turn.

Wolverine is meant to be a tank (taunt, weaken enemies, heal, self-revive, etc). His ultimate can do serious damage with max heroism.

- Three of the heroes occupy the "tank" role: Wolverine, Captain America, and Captain Marvel. Of those three, I like Wolverine the most because he has the most built-in sustain.
- Two of the heroes occupy the "support" role: Nico and Strange. Both are equally good depending on setup.
- Three of the heroes occupy the "utility" role: Magik, Spider Man, and Scarlet Witch. Magik and spider man are stronger than Scarlet Witch, due to non-intuitive usage for several of her AOE skills.
- Four of the heroes occupy the "damage" role: Hulk, Ghost Rider, Blade, and Iron Man. Hulk is easily the best of these three because of "Always Angry". Ghost Rider does insanely high damage, but with greater risk due to health sacrificing skills. Straight to Hell can make up for this deficiency. Iron Man does more damage than Blade, but is more of a liability because of the aforementioned redraw card issues when he gets downed. Blade does the least damage of these four, but can keep himself alive better than Iron Man because of his lifesteal abilities.
- Obviously The Hunter occupies an "all-rounder" niche because the Hunter has the most cards, allowing you set them up for whatever role you like. I'd argue they make the best utility character because their skills are extremely powerful when upgraded - Mindbender, Heal, Fortify, and Last Sight can make them extremely damaging and durable.

Iron Man's particular problem is that he isn't good at surviving compared to several of the other heroes (notably the Hulk and the Hunter). So sure, Iron Man can deal OK damage, but chances are by the time he's set up to do that damage, he'll be downed. Then his redraw cards can't be discarded and will detract from the remaining fighters.

[daffius911]

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

Originally posted by daffius911:

More damage? No way. His main downside and what makes Wolverine one of the worst heroes imho is the fact he can't damage. On higher difficulties he is pretty much useless. What he is good for is to taunt everything and since he is the only one you can revive, you get a free turn.

Wolverine is meant to be a tank (taunt, weaken enemies, heal, self-revive, etc). His ultimate can do serious damage with max heroism.

- Three of the heroes occupy the "tank" role: Wolverine, Captain America, and Captain Marvel. Of those three, I like Wolverine the most because he has the most built-in sustain.

I get that. Probably cause I play ult 3, hence no tank can take 3 full hits (except cap with block generation). As such, taunting and counter doesn't offer much to wolverine as he'll be downed immediately. Having a free revive ability is great on him, but since he can't dish out damage, can't really take damage (his heal is useless if he is ko'd). Hence his only use is first 1-2 rounds to mass take out minions. Then taunt everything, get ko'd and get back up, ie: a free turn.

Heroes play very differently on different difficulties, so he might be great (tanks in general could be) on other difficulties, I don't doubt you. However in my games, I find him the least useful character in the entire roaster.

[Highborne]

Originally posted by daffius911:

Originally posted by EvilRobot69:

Wolverine is meant to be a tank (taunt, weaken enemies, heal, self-revive, etc). His ultimate can do serious damage with max heroism.

- Three of the heroes occupy the "tank" role: Wolverine, Captain America, and Captain Marvel. Of those three, I like Wolverine the most because he has the most built-in sustain.

I get that. Probably cause I play ult 3, hence no tank can take 3 full hits (except cap with block generation). As such, taunting and counter doesn't offer much to wolverine as he'll be downed immediately. Having a free revive ability is great on him, but since he can't dish out damage, can't really take damage (his heal is useless if he is ko'd). Hence his only use is first 1-2 rounds to mass take out minions. Then taunt everything, get ko'd and get back up, ie: a free turn.

Heroes play very differently on different difficulties, so he might be great (tanks in general could be) on other difficulties, I don't doubt you. However in my games, I find him the least useful character in the entire roaster.

I find Wolverine to be a decent damage dealer between his Ult (with Lethality strengthened and likely marked or vuln on it) and Eviscerate. Can safely ignore any kind of tanking at all and focus on Heroism generation and alpha striking.

I'd take Wolverine over most other characters on U3 TBH.