November Previews Thread

[Zebedee]

Skill Up's, after 10 hours played:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YigF-PQh6tw

Quick summary: Loves the combat. However, thinks the superheroes don't come off as being interesting in the Abbey stuff so he's not enjoying that. Estimates he's been 50/50 in time spent in combat vs in Abbey. Technical side, he's had some inconsistent FPS using a 4090.

[Zarquon]

Fetralife puts it more at 80% of the game is the relationship sim at the abbey and 20% combat.
Also notes it's not a AAA game in terms of production values.
The best skins are locked behind a cash shop.
The missions are the same.
"The enemy variety is arguably some of the worst i've seen in video game"
Ends with "if you are turn-based RPG player and you really want that turn based RPG experience, i don't think this is going to be the game for you".

But, just like Skillup, he enjoyed the little combat there was.

[Zebedee]

Renamed thread to a more general title.

Fextralife video Zarquon quotes is here, there's a lot the previewer likes in there too including the focus on narrative driving the game - even if that is not going to be to everyone's taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3zl_awNOqo

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PCGamer is a bit more upbeat about the Abbey side:

https://www.pcgamer.com/marvels-midnight-suns-is-more-fire-emblem-than-xcom/

These are established characters with big egos and a way of making drama gravitate towards them. Tony Stark simply refuses to stop cracking ♥♥♥♥ jokes and I think it might destroy the team. That's if his roommate, the prickly Doctor Strange, doesn't murder him first. Spider-Man buckles to peer pressure at the drop of a hat and wants to please everyone. And Magik's just plain mean. They're all just very insecure, so it's pretty much high school again—full of rivalries and cliques, popular kids and outcasts. Except some of them are middle-aged men.

I'm already more invested in them—even the ones I don't really like—than I could be with an interchangeable squad of soldiers.

[Zebedee]

NME's Jake Tucker sums it up as "Marvel's Midnight Suns has great writing, great combat and a terrible, terrible Abbey where you spend 70% of your time giving superheroes gifts to try and make them like you."

Longer form here: https://www.nme.com/features/gaming-features/marvels-midnight-suns-preview-3351035

[Zebedee]

Long overview from ChristopherOdd, he does say upfront he's skipped past a lot of content to come to it fresh for a let's play. But his overall view is that he's really looking forward to doing that let's play. Main criticism he makes is that there needs to be more information given during combat (eg preview of enemy health after being hit, enemy's skills being listed.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRQFeJOP73U

[chronobomb]

Everyone seems to really enjoy the combat. There is a major split on the Abbey and interacting with the other heroes. Here is a video where they hate the interactions and makes a few good points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWVllLzAF9g

[Zebedee]

Yeah, that was a good discussion of the things which seem to be polarising opinions.

Here's the Gamespot preview they quote from at the start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy0laO7oAbg

Text version: https://www.gamespot.com/videos/marvels-midnight-suns-the-final-preview/2300-6460022/

[Zebedee]

Another 'great combat, I really like it overall' preview. Estimates that over 40 hours he spent it 50/50 between combat and wandering around the Abbey. Agrees with criticism about the graphics, in particular the character models in the cut scenes etc., looking dated, as well as some of the other previews not being keen at all on how the male hunter's voice has been done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LJ3luaUCqk

[BaconX]

So takeaway from all the preview is, the combat is legit. Anyone who is going against this game due to the cards, it's ain't the cards. Pretty much everyone unanimously stated that the cards are fun and the combat is great.

The Abbey on the other hand, might be down to your preference to narrative and interaction with these Marvel characters. From what I saw from Skillup and some other, they're comparing it to the MCU and so it throws them off that these characters are not really that. Your tolerance with Marvel jokes and some lightheartedness quips will definitely vary, i don't think they'll bother me much, but some people might not have the patience for them.

So overall, pretty happy about the gameplay being great. As for the Abbey, I never expected it to be like something mindblowing but just a hub where you can level up cards and interact with the Marvel characters, but I'm definitely gonna see that being docked some points by people who want more combat, which is understandable. Regardless of the score, I'm still super hype for this game.

[Zebedee]

Mmm. From a lot of the previews, including a fair few not shared, I think there's a lot more going on than the 'combat is great'. Skill Up touches on some things with his talk of the loop going on with cards. Fextralife picks up on a few things too, including starting to feel burned out by the repetitious nature of the combat. Mechanically competent but it seems some will not buy into the gameplay loop of the card system. On the flipside to that, it does seem like some previewers have genuinely never been interested in TTBs before and so it seems to be offering a nice bridge over from other Marvel games.

Criticism of the Abbey is pretty wide ranging. Bit which concerns me most really. I can live with dated graphics (it's Firaxis, they weren't ever going to be anything but Firaxis models in closeup) but rote answers to optimise +friendship responses, with no real downsides, is kind of what I was hoping they hadn't done. There's a sample of dialogue with Captain Marvel in one of the previews which sounded so bad that I'm hoping it's an abhorrent anomaly rather than the norm.

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Non-TTB Marvel games player gives it a try. Enjoyed the combat, finds the atmosphere of the game is too bright and too bantery for the setting. Doesn't like the Hunter at all. Also notes technical performance on PC was poor in the preview build. Wants to play more but is hoping that he can spend less time between combat missions than he has been doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqAon71kKQs

[BaconX]

Originally posted by Zebedee:

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Keep in mind that some of these previews, like Skillup and Fextra, is that they're only 10-15 hours into a roughly 50 hour game so while their opinion should be respected, you need to take into consideration that they have not seen everything the game has to offer. This goes for the enemy variety that concerned Fextra, because he might not see the enemies beyond his hours.

I usually like Skillup's review, and this is not because he has something negative to say about the game, but his comment regarding the Abbey leads me to believe that he's looking for something akin to what we see in the MCU, but MS is doing its whole thing. It just seems like he has expectation on how the dialogue and character interaction will be based on the MCU. I also don't think he's much into the whole comic thing either, because if you watch Christopher Odd and other's previews, you will see that they appreciate the Abbey interaction more as fans of the comics.

People who are gonna hate the game will use these critique to hate on the game, but I'm happy to hear that pretty much everybody seems to love the combat and think it's fun. I think regarding the Abbey, if you are okay with some corny dialogue and VA that doesn't quite sound like what you're used to from the MCU but generally okay, you'll be fine with it. Remember that a lot of things you love from other games, somebody has said is repetitive, it just depends on how invested you are to the systems and mechanics.

[Zebedee]

Originally posted by BaconX:

snip

Which basically boils down to only hearing what you want to hear by cherry picking the bits you agree with and then finding fault with the bits you don't, doesn't it? If someone is burning out on combat after 10 hours of play, even if they like it in spite of the lack of variety, that's a problem in game structure (at the least), isn't it? Even if the infinite variety of the hordes of hell are waiting if you can see it through to the second act.

Which is all fine but trying to handwave things away doesn't work for me whether it's people ignoring flaws or ignoring strengths to get where they were going in the first place.

[BaconX]

Originally posted by Zebedee:

Originally posted by BaconX:

snip

Which basically boils down to only hearing what you want to hear by cherry picking the bits you agree with and then finding fault with the bits you don't, doesn't it? If someone is burning out on combat after 10 hours of play, even if they like it in spite of the lack of variety, that's a problem in game structure (at the least), isn't it? Even if the infinite variety of the hordes of hell are waiting if you can see it through to the second act.

Which is all fine but trying to handwave things away doesn't work for me whether it's people ignoring flaws or ignoring strengths to get where they were going in the first place.

Whoa whoa, slow down champ. I said their reviews should be respected, but you need to take into account that they're only 10-15 hours into the preview of the game. That doesn't mean I'm telling you they're wrong in their summation.

Even at the end, I tell you that repetition is up to how you're invested in the systems and mechanics. Repetition is down to the individual, take for example, I love Monster Hunter games, love them to death. That said, the premise of Monster Hunter is boils down to hunt monster to carve their skin, to make equipment, to hunt more monsters. When you really think about it, all MH games are mainly just a continuous boss rush, fighting the same number of monsters. That said, I'm totally invested in the systems and mechanics of the weapons and the actual battle with the monsters themselves, so for me, it's not repetitious because I really enjoy those hunts.

Now take that example of mine, and put it into something you enjoy that others may think can get repetitive. Just because somebody tell you something, doesn't mean that it's necessarily what you'll experience. That's all I wanted to point out, not because "I love all the positive from these previews, and hate all the negatives". That's not what I was saying, I like a lot of these guys opinion, especially Skillup and Fextralife.

Also there are other previews that don't bring up these issues, so if you should take into account all the other previews, and then form your own opinion on it.

[Zebedee]

Originally posted by BaconX:

Whoa whoa, slow down champ. I said their reviews should be respected, but you need to take into account that they're only 10-15 hours into the preview of the game. That doesn't mean I'm telling you they're wrong in their summation.

I certainly took into account that they're sentient and will understand the gameplay loops after 15 hours of play. I'd be very surprised if they hadn't done that within a couple of hours, certainly 5, like any decent beta tester. Fwiw, I suspect the repetition is most likely tied up with no time limits on the strategic layer and so much side content which can be done with very little evident progression before needing to progress the story on. Which is a different thing to a digression into whether one enjoys the systems and mechanics.

Anyways.

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Smaller channel. Very upbeat about the combat, some mild criticisms of how the friendship system works with the incentive always being to maximise it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ontWRKApHGU

[RobOda]

So, if you're coming in from a non-MCU viewpoint, the abbey is more enjoyable?

Would kind of make sense, I don't really link the MCU to the games, since they're wildly different, for obvious reasons.

Good to hear so much positive feedback on the combat though - that was something far too many people wrote off too early.

Sounds like it'll be fun.

A question tho; I thought skins were just visual changes, not basically in-game buffs or whatever, is that the case?

[BaconX]

Originally posted by Zebedee:

snipped

Again, that's up to the individual. In Fextra's case, it's because at the point he's at, he felt that the enemy variety is lacking and there are too much side quest, which he finds too repetitive. At 15 hours, I doubt he's seen all the enemy variety yet, so that's why I say to take that into account. As for too much side quest, it again depends on if you can enjoy the card mechanics enough to maybe use different team composition or mix up your strategies in battle. That's why I gave you that Monster Hunter example, where you're doing pretty much the same thing for hundreds of hours, but the combat is engaging enough to not be repetitive.

Nobody can really tell you what's repetitive other than you, to me, a Mario game is repetitive because all you're doing is just jumping. Even XCOM, which I love, can be quite repetitive if you think about it, go on a mission to do the same number of missions, fighting the same enemies, and then you go back to based to research so you can do more of those missions.

Originally posted by RobOda:

A question tho; I thought skins were just visual changes, not basically in-game buffs or whatever, is that the case?

For the most part it's just a visual change, but you do get special collars around your neck for the hunter, which will give you buffs in the game.