Feature suggestion: auto arch maker

[Entsel]

This already exists in the game for the suspensions, which automatically arch and the arch can even be adjusted, but it would be really great to be able to make arches out of other materials as well, since it is a very desirable shape in a bridge.

I'm getting a little bit carried away here but here are some other features that I would love to see concerning arches: a way to modify the distance between the points in the arch would be great, like by scrolling the mouse wheel, and it would be awesome to be able to choose what type of arch you want, like a round arch or a catenary arch. This could come with a small description of what each arch is best for. For example, a catenary arch is the best shape for a free standing arch of constant thickness.

But really just an arch maker of any kind would be great because it's hard to make them by hand.

Also this reminds me that suspensions have a small bug, where if they are very long and you try to adjust their "archiness", they just straighten up and will refuse to arch to the amount they did when they were placed.

[Blake Walsh]

I second this request, a while ago I almost made it but I couldn't quite be bothered.

In my conception, the ideal way would be to have an overlay which acts as a visual guide, that is the arch helper simply overlays (or underlays) a shadow catenary, semicircle or parabola and you can then place the elements however you wish following the shadow guide. While I would also find it acceptable if it placed the struts for me, I would prefer simply having a guide since it would allow a higher level of control over where the nodes are.

By the way, I did figure out a relatively clever way to create a near-perfect catenary with a little help from real world materials. All you need is some tack or sticky tape and a heavy but flexible cord or light chain (i.e. jewelry chain), tack/stick the ends of the cord to the sides or top of the monitor so it hangs in the position you wish passing through the anchors at each end (or a point directly above the anchors). Create your arch following the cord. Then use cut/copy and vertical flip for a perfect arch!
While only allowing a catenary and not any other arch shape, and having some minor error due to parallax it should give good results.

But an in-game arch helper would be really neat.

[bolt986]

I had to read up on Catenary arches :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catenary

Does the suspension cable create a catenary arch?

[Entsel]

I think so, because when you place it and start the simulation, it doesn't change position. It moves a little bit but that's because of joint bounciness I think.

[Blake Walsh]

I doubt it matters what shape it is; because struts are elastic and because cables are not "pre-tensioned", when gravity acts on the joints the cable will be stretched and the bridge will bounce up and down. It will ultimately be stretched into an approximate catenary (approximate, because mass is discreteized into the joints instead of being evenly distributed), but the final shape will not be the build mode shape (as all the "struts" end up being stretched fractionally longer) and as such the build mode shape is not the catenary curve for that material.

[Dry Cactus]

Entsel,
an arch maker would be a pretty cool tool, thanks for the suggestion.
I hadn't really though of a clever way of doing it, but what Blake suggested might be the best answer, an overlay tool that allows you to create a guide to follow, rather than having the tool create the actual joints automatically (which I personally try to avoid).
The arch overlay tool could be integrated into other measuring tools (distance, angle, something else?).

The build mode curve is not really a catenary, although it would probably be nicer if it were closer to it's final resting position, however as Blake mentioned above, once the simulation starts and gravity is applied, given the small amount of elasticity joints have, there will always be some movement.
Currently it places joints along the arc of a circle whose radius is defined loosely by the "sag" drag-slider players can control.

[Entsel]

Blake's idea of an overly tool and other measuring tools would be great (especially angle), it's true that it's better if the players build everything rather than have the bridge be "auto-built", which would defeat the purpose of the game.

[Blake Walsh]

With an overlay arch it would be useful to have joints snap to the arch guideline. Perhaps this could be a toggle option, or perhaps it could even be non-toggleable, as chances are if you're using an arch guideline you want to follow it as precisely as possible.

I also have another idea, at the moment there are the very useful pale horizontal and vertical guidelines emanating from the cursor when you are placing a joint. Another useful guideline would be an extension of the current strut continuing at the same angle off to infinity, so if you are say laying a road, you can see exactly where that road will end up if you continue it at the same angle. I can't say exactly what the use for this is, but many times I've wanted it.

[bolt986]

Blake, if your trying to get a road or other rod to point to another specific point on the map move the mouse to that point and click there while placing. Do you think it would be useful for the line to extend both directions at that slope that way you could also line it up with points behind?

[icks]

Hi

I too, have had this idea,mostly along the same lines Blake detailed above. I envisioned the ability to create a guide with handles to create a Bezier curve that works much in the same way as it does in any graphics program out there.
You get your arches and your straight lines and also guides for the the few maps where you need "wavey" bridges.

[Blake Walsh]

Originally posted by bolt986:

Blake, if your trying to get a road or other rod to point to another specific point on the map move the mouse to that point and click there while placing. Do you think it would be useful for the line to extend both directions at that slope that way you could also line it up with points behind?

Yeah I'm aware that since a recent patch you can draw roads to a point, probably a bad example (altough in some cases, such as with grid on, and even with grid off I believe, it makes a wibbly road because the exact angle you want is not permitted so it only does it to the nearest grid point, or pixel point, in this case a guideline would show the *actual* angle of the road), when you mention it having the guideline extend out behind would be useful, as it would make it easier to gauge the angle relative to the angle of previously placed points. Part of the point of angle guidelines is that they act as a "handle" which makes it easier to visualize the exact angle of a short piece like a road, placing the cursor way off in space to gain finer control kind of works and is what I do, but it's not as good as having an actual line.

[bolt986]

That's a good point Blake.
Another thing I do to make perfectly straight off-grid sloped roads is to build one road at the desired slope then use copy & paste to paste that road across the whole distance.
The first 10 seconds of this video demonstrate this well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81iMf0-ylNI

[maawolfe36]

I'd just like to say that I agree, the overlay idea sounds like a great way to add a bit more functionality without too much hand-holding. Just a +1 from another fan of the game :)