Fertilizer nutrient rate affected by device upgrades?

[KuvianWars]

I'm seeing that if I have four device upgrades I'm getting 120/min from a redcurrant nursery when I use advanced fertilizer.

This went against my expectations since the max nutrient rate for advanced fertilizer is 144/s and redcurrant requires 144v so I'd expect 60/min no matter what.

So this must mean that device upgrades not only affect nurseries but they affect the fertilizer's max nutrient rate

Am I crazy? Is anybody else seeing this??

[Fenix]

I think it is, but the game isn't show it.

[barbrady123]

If that was the case wouldn't all seeds scale the same amount (they don't).

[KuvianWars]

I haven't reached higher tier plants so I can't test with those and flax and sage have such low requirements you'd need a ton of belt upgrades to see the effect.

But try it out with redcurrant and four device and four belt upgrades and you'll see what I'm talking about, it's bizarre

[Spanky]

idk

[barbrady123]

Yeah I am only at the Redcurrant stage also, but I know that Sage/Flax/Red are not equally affected by the upgrades. So it seems max V/sec is still a limiter for the slower seeds (those < 144V required)

[KuvianWars]

Here's some screenshots showing 120 redcurrant/min
I'm guessing this is a bug, why would device upgrades affect this?

https://imgur.com/a/CZJnNZ4

[Ghevd]

Do you have increases belt speed too? Because I just have fertilizer and heat upgrades and advance fertilizer brings all my plants to 60 per minute.

[Fenix]

Originally posted by Ghevd:

Do you have increases belt speed too? Because I just have fertilizer and heat upgrades and advance fertilizer brings all my plants to 60 per minute.

yeah you need the belt upgrades or you belts are capped at 60

[KuvianWars]

I do have belt upgrades but I wouldn't expect it to increase, advanced nutrient's max nutrient rate is 144v/s and redcurrant needs 144v so it should only stay at 60/min

[Ghevd]

Fertilizer has a second value. This effects how much of that v it can release at once.

[KuvianWars]

Originally posted by Ghevd:

Fertilizer has a second value. This effects how much of that v it can release at once.

Yeah the max nutrient rate which for advanced fertilizer is 144v/a

What's your point?

[Ghevd]

Yay! I finally hit level 6 and did some testing for ya with my new found points.

So currently not counting those two unspent points the only other points I have are 4 in each of heating and fertilizer.

My sage, flax, and redcurrant, while using advance fertilizer, all say they come out at 60/min which is the same as my belt speed.

I dumped both points into conveyor belt speed. I had assumed the grow rate just matched it.

Low and behold with the plus 30 to conveyor speed my flax and sage was now producing at 90/m. But there was a problem, redcurrant was still at 60.

I dumped both into points into factory efficiency instead and... everything remained at 60/m.

Finally, I tried one point in each. Jackpot, all 3 went to 75/m.

Finally the 144v number. Turns out this isn't used to determine plant growth. It is used to calculate fertilizer consumption.

Seems a plants v value is how much it will take per "bite" while a fertilizers v value is how much it is willing to give per "bite". The nutrient value is the fertilizer's hitpoints or how many bites it can last. Divide by the plants v value and it gives you the bottom hourglass in the growplot. This is why redcurrant eats a bag of advance fertilizer in 7 seconds while it takes sage 28 seconds.

Not sure how it all works and your guess is as good as mine if this is intended behavior. There seems to be a hidden variable in the skills when combined and that is what effects the grow time. Some of my grow times are less than one with one point in each. Sitting 0.67 seconds to grow a flax which I seen with points jist in conveyor speed.

We seem better off putting points into conveyor speed as that effects grow time. If ya have to chose one over the other but it is best to put points into them together.

Points in fertilizer help significantly less. Just increases how much of it plants consume.

I also tried a few tests with basic fertilizer and you only see an increase when you upgrade conveyors and factory efficiency together.

[Stashiv82]

Originally posted by KuvianWars:

Here's some screenshots showing 120 redcurrant/min
I'm guessing this is a bug, why would device upgrades affect this?

https://imgur.com/a/CZJnNZ4

Because device upgrades increase their SPEED by 25% per upgrade point. You have 4 points... 100% increase in speed... 60 becomes 120. You're consuming the fertilizer at the same rate (twice as much as you would with no upgrades, but you're also now producing it at double the rate).

The only thing you need to concern yourself with now.... is fuel.

[barbrady123]

Ok so I've done a bit more digging into this and no, it doesn't seem like fertilizer is affected, but you're getting your bonus on the nursery itself, so it makes sense it wouldn't "double dip" in that regard.

So looking at flax, I've got 4 levels in production bonus (so 2x basically), and the numbers work fine with basic fertilizer.

Flax takes 24V, regular fert gives 12V/sec. This should be 2sec/flax or 30/min. I get 60/min (2x production bonus)...so this makes sense. But advanced fertilizer...

If Flax takes 24V, advanced fert says 144V/sec. So it "should" be a MASSIVE boost. It should be 0.16666 secs per flax, or 360/min...x2 (prod bonus) it should be 720/min. Now of course this is insanity for one nursery plot, and it's pointless because you can only output 1 belt anyway. I found it's EXACTLY capped to your belt speed, so whatever that is, you'll see it's reporting that in the nursery UI. I had 135/min belts and with advanced fert it was claiming to output 135/min. As soon as I upgraded belts one more time, the plot now says 150/min. So...seems to scale on the nursery, NOT the fertilizer, but also will show as capped in the UI at belt speed (I guess this is better than showing 720/min.

Note that even if you dump to chest (which, in most factory games would bypass belt throughput limitations) it will still only output from the nursery at your belt speed limit.

[GD]

Don't forget that Production Efficiency is not just increasing the nursery "speed" but also the making of fertilizer at the same time and all needed factory for that as well. So you not notice the change except for the fact that more resources are bought/used in the same time ... but so are more produced.

The danger here is that your shop income is not keeping up with the costs.

EDIT: Oh and of course if you neglect to upgrade your belt speed parallel to production you notice your factory is totally off and goods are stuck everywhere because the production is faster than the belts can handle. Hence upgrade both at the same time.