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讨论规则及指引
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I once told a friend about S2 and we wanted to play it just to find out you cannot even download the game properly from the site and making an account was bugy. After all we managed to get the game running just to find empty servers. But there is still a small community that plays every friday with a custom patch. We played with them and had a blast.
Also i don't think Savage 1 is more Esports firendly. Simply because its not friendly in any way. Getting into it is super hard. And there is no E-Sports without player base. Its that simple. Games Like League turned away from hardcore gameplay and just focused on the fun and accessable before even thinking about E-Sports. And i think thats the best way to do it
I don't think Sav2 sucked and im sure many other people think the same. I liked the gameplay. Ranged weapons were alot weaker but were still usefull if you had ammo depot or mana wells. That also pushed teamplay since people automatially stick to ammo and healers.
You also had segregation issues (f2p players were forced onto trial servers), way too many overhauls to the melee system and overall mechanics (like replacing units and abilities) which is why people left or have gone back to S1, lack of patches and serious client memory leaks that weren't resolved for months.
However, S2 included a lot of features S1 was lacking: weaker units being very useful throughout the match, class variety, skills and abilities with emphasis on melee, upkeep, more meaningful resources gathering, incentive to team up, more buffs for commanders to use, soul gathering for hellshrine comeback and of course a melee system that was plain and easy to learn while being hard to master (during open beta at least).
S1's melee is hard to learn, and even harder to master. It's not worse, just different. And very unappealing to new players.
playsavage2 dot com
I don'T know how the rules are for posting links. so im sorry if its not allowed :P
Savage 1 was great, ahead of its time, Savage 2 was a lot of fun, ruined by a few poor decisions catering to the most vocal minority.
Looking forward, can't wait to see the direction this game goes, just hope the rather fanatical Savage 1 fans don't get too vocal on additions that have potential! Look forward to being beaten by you all once again on the battlefield!
Yes, yes you did. Are you saying S1 is overly complicated? LoL and Dota2 are equally complex they just have a much more refined systems to assist new players. Still this is way off topic for me.
This is the exact same reason that S1 failed. It was free, and the community basically remade the whole game out of love but still no playerbase = dead game.
It may have done a bit better had it been put on steam for free, but it was out before the days when steam is what we know it to be today.
I'm not sure how Sav Res will do. I hope it succeeds but it has big challenges to overcome to do that. Maybe it should work on a similar payment model to LoL or Dota2, maybe it'll never be big enough for that to be viable, I don't know.
I'm hoping there's a big marketing push when it come round to V1.0, but really it needs to get on the top sellers list and gain community interaction and hype if it's going to succeed.
^^This. Savage XR melee is difficult to get into for four reasons.
1.) It's a very unfamiliar system to most people.
2.) It's absolutely necessary to understand the underlying mechanics to be able to play it effectively. The animations do a decent job once this knowledge is in place - but on the surface for someone new to the game they can be very misleading. What you see is not what you get. Or rather, what you might intuit from the game's appearance is likely to be incorrect.
3.) The community has done a relatively poor job at educating new players in these systems. In XR things have improved somewhat over the original Savage 1. There's 2 public forum posts that explain the mechanics. There's a melee tutorial with some fairly competent bots, and there's the duel arena, which allows focused practice both alone and with other players.
4.) There is no ladder system - so in public games there is a massive skill disparity. Much more with melee than with other systems, such as the FPS aspects of the game, which most players will at least have a rudimentary grasp of from the start. New players can get demolished without being able to correctly interpret how or why that is happening.
My experience is that if you take the time to explain melee to someone, walk them through the basic moves and help them familiarise themselves with the systems and how melee "feels" then they can make pretty rapid progress - and, more importantly, reach the stage where they can make significant progression by themselves. The actual mechanics are very simple - they just need to get used to them.
Side note: most players can get to grips with humans pretty easily - and can improve without this assistance. But still, as you migth expect, getting really good at human melee takes a bit more time and thought and at least some understanding of how the beast side plays.
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It should be noted that all the problems I list above are absolutely going to be (and already are) serious problems with Savage Ressurrection. This is why I think a duel arena needs to be a high priority for the developers. A melee turorial would also be nice - but a duel arena / practice area is a necessity IMO. It's the only way to develop the kind of community support needed to introduce new players to the game's mechanics.
By the nature of the game, Savage can be punishing, alientaing and confusing for new players. But I do not think it needs to be at all. I also think that it will be impossible for Savage Ressurrection to succeed commercially without serious thought going into how to deal with these issues.
I don't think this an insurmountable obstacle. Dota, LoL and CS:GO are all far more complicated games. They're also more high stakes than Savage. You can die quickly in Ressurrection and XR, but each death matters much less. Those other games just put in a lot of work into introducing players to their systems, and also have the support provided by huge communities that are heavily invested in promoting the games and making them accessible.
**I know this is kind of a digression - I started typing up an explanation of the appeal / skill in savage melee. But it's hard to explain, and I got distracted :P Will try again some other time**
Surely Savage Ressurrection can do similar things.
Easy examples: - Guides explaining the different weapons (there are already 2 of these IIRC).
- Youtube videos showing the basic beast melee moves.
- Casual gameplay modes. For example a PvP mode with no commanders in a big arena - tech unlocks slowly over time (XR has a map based around this). Or what about regular games with a drastically boosted amount of XP and gold that reduces the amount of XP and gold you get from actually killing opponents (maybe with 3x the gold giving NPCs and XP gained over time or for things like repairing). Or how about sillier game modes with ridiculous concepts, or that use other cool bits of the game's mechanics like how speed and momentum work (XR had football and instagib matches for example. I think there are some maps themed around racing as well).
The reason I mentioned the duel arena is because this thread was originally about melee. I don't think that a duel arena would be a good resource for new players because I expect them to go in and practice for hours by themselves. It would be good because it it's a useful place outside of the chaos of a regular game to do a quick demonstration of how melee works.
Of course it's also a great place for players to practice and hone their skills if they are into that, but another big pro is just having a space outside of regular games where you can derp around, show off the game or just chat with other players. At least that's how I find it implemented in XR. Of course if it ended up in Ressurrection they might choose to do it completely differently.
This I don't agree with at all. I didn't keep playing the game because of my burning desire to become uber-pro at melee :D It was just fun. I learnt the game by messing around in it, mostly taking low tier units, dodging about trying to survive and gradually learning how to be useful to the team by playing smaller roles. Playing a healer, sieging a base, saving the shield by manualy repairing it, blazing siege units, dodging past enemies on suicide missions to grab the flag, stopping demo runners, sacrifice runs... all the other ♥♥♥♥ in the game. I learnt melee through duelling much later.
In Savage Ress I don't get the same feeling atm. Partly I think because the maps feel a bit larger and quite a lot more open, and the team sizes are smaller. You get a lot more aimless wandering, and you don't really get that sense of being a small part of something bigger with action going on all around you. I think that's what hooked me first with XR.
I definitely agree that games should be easy and fun to get into, but I'm hoping that Savage Ress will find ways to make things more accessible. This doesn't mean I'd like it to be the same as XR btw. I'd like to see it do more, and of course new ideas in the game.