HFC

[squirtikiss]

I have cooked 35 meals since the new update. I gained not one skill tick from these 35 meals. This is clearly broken. My skill was exactly 20 before cooking, and is exactly 20 now. I sure hope the devs did not make it so no skill can be gained from generic meals. I could not care less about the new cooking system and just want to continue with the old cooking system.

[bowfin35]

I cooked a bunch of breakfast and gained quite a bit of skill. It was just a potato in a pottery bowl. cooked 90-100 of them and went from 21 HFC to almost 27. Haven't tried the old style meals yet, but will give it a try and see if there's any skill gain.

[bowfin35]

Just made 10 meat meals and only got one skill tick in hfc.

[Myst Leissa]

I think 35 meals might not be enough to go from 20 - 21 - but IF on your skills page you see no "green skills" it may be that you aren't preforming "difficult" enough recipes to gain skill (similiar to the old system only of more import is the "cooking difficulty" - which determines pretty much how much if any skill you gain from a given recipe (from my observations the HFC Skill is pretty slow to level; on par with Mind Logic or Body Control))

Also when it comes to the skills window text the green skills are the ones that have positively changed since you last checked - and the red ones are negative (from dying usually) - if you see all white there has been no change to that specific skill since the last time you opened the window to check it)

ofc the fact most of my toons wander around with all 0s on CCFP and less than 50% food bars - this might be viable reason my leveling of cooking is so slow :p

[squirtikiss]

JuStX2, This is not WO. WU is not supposed to be affected by meal difficulty. It has not been for me in the past. And yes, my HFC did not turn green after 35 meals so there were no skill ticks. I was cooking meals that were well above my skill level. In WO they would have been too high to gain skill ticks and I would have been cooking something less difficult.

Bowfin35, Thanks for checking this. The fact that you received a skill tick makes me wonder if the problem is with my server. I forgot to mention I was using sleep bonus when I cooked the meals, so there is even more reason I should have received several ticks. Were you cooking meals in that WO difficulty range? If so, cooking may have been changed to WO style of skill gain.

[Myst Leissa]

Originally posted by squirtikiss:

JuStX2, This is not WO. WU is not supposed to be affected by meal difficulty. It has not been for me in the past. And yes, my HFC did not turn green after 35 meals so there were no skill ticks. I was cooking meals that were well above my skill level. In WO they would have been too high to gain skill ticks and I would have been cooking something less difficult.

Bowfin35, Thanks for checking this. The fact that you received a skill tick makes me wonder if the problem is with my server. I forgot to mention I was using sleep bonus when I cooked the meals, so there is even more reason I should have received several ticks. Were you cooking meals in that WO difficulty range? If so, cooking may have been changed to WO style of skill gain.

/Shouldn't/ be isn't quite the same as /isn't/. Also in the recent update I heard alot of behind the scenes stuff was brought on-par with WO in WU; it's entirely possible one of those things is the cooking difficulty. Also - I don't know what makes you think I have any experience with WO (beyond a few minutes trek through the wilds to check the CCFP system prior to the cooking update, and an attempt long ago that I didn't even know what I was doing :p)

[bowfin35]

It was a 40 difficulty meal, just a meat and a potato. If you're looking for skill gain, a potato in a pottery bowl gives decent skill gain.

[squirtikiss]

JuSTX2, I assumed you had played WO because you mentioned the meal difficulty being used to determine skill ticks. This has only been the case in WO, not WU.
Investigation done by several players indicates there is a problem with generic meat. People who were getting skill ticks making generic meals with the "named" meat failed to gain ticks using the exact same ingredients when making generic meals with generic meat. Generic fillets gained ticks. Only generic meat failed to create meals that gave skill gain.
I have already reported this as a bug to the developers.

Many thanks to all of you who responded.

[Arch]

Not sure this is a bug, as it's fine on my end.

Fails dont always give ticks, and high difficulty meals fail the roll often

[anon751]

in WU you want to do the easiests thing possible to gain skill. The main difference between WO and WU when it comes to skill gain is in WU you can gain skill from "easy" tasks that you wouldn't in WO.

I knoticed that in WU code (TempStates.checkForChange()) that the skill gain size is scalled up based on difficuly and number of ingredits. That is kinda counter productive for WU.

With this knowledge in hand you could meta the system without too much moding. Make a new recipe.
cooker: use this to tweek difficulty, say 0,10,20 for over, forge, campfire(this cooker is the most annoying to use);
container: specify lots of containers and add difficulties for them like above so you can tweek difficulty even more;
mandatory: any fish or any meat. no affect on difficulty.
one or more any veggie. no affect on difficulty. use one or more so you can put say 99 corn in a cauldron + 1 meat.
result: id as meal. do this to get a high nutruition food. difficulty as something low.

For ccpf it would be good if there was a list somewhere of the base ccfp values for food so you could add a bunch of optional things to tailor this. I see them in the code but not sure if there is an easier to read source somewhere for them.

[Nettlesprout]

I have not tested it but I heard something suggesting you won't get much if any skill-ups using "unprocessed" ie "whole" ingredients -- a meat + potato cooked as a meal are unprocessed and might not give skill? While a chopped meat and chopped potato cooked together also make a meal and are processed. I have not run tests myself yet, just that all the people reporting skill gains were chopping/processing the ingredients while the people with no skill gains were using the old-style 'grab a meat and a potato and throw them in the bowl' system.


Maybe the people getting / not getting skill can report if their ingredients are processed / whole, and we can see of their is a pattern.



I have 28.89 HFC now on a new character, she always chops stuff before putting it into the frypan. I also tend to try to use as many varied ingredients as i can as this seems to give me maxxed CCFP, so my meals are usually higher difficulty and consist of:

• minced meat (for high protein)
  
• cheese (for high fat)
  
• chopped onion+garlic+corn (for carbs)
  
• chopped herbs x 2
  (seems to work better with herbs and also raise nutrition, I am still growing spices in my planters rack and will add ground spices once I have enough)

Some veggies are better at carbs etc (pumpkins/cabbages) but those tend to be "large sized" so I cannot fit as much variety into a frypan and i was not getting good ccfp from those. So now i try to use "small sized" ingredients for more variety. Mostly I eat "insect meals" since I live in Spider Country. I have not been grinding the skill, just cooking as needed for personal use, but seem to get skillups fine and maxxed CCFP. Most of the meals are 'high difficulty" for my skill level due to the number of ingredients (about 75 difficuly > 25 skill).



I don't feel a strong need for grinding the HFC skill if I am able to keep CCFP maxxed and high Nutrition (80) with my regular 28Q n00bish meals, though I imagine higher quality will give longer affinity boosts if you are into that. I currently get about a 1 hour buff and I hear on WO that highend cooks with custom recipes are able to make 4 hour buffs. Since WU lets you customize skillgain anyway, that may be less important in WU, than on the WO servers where skillgain is very slow.


You can see the stats of each ingredient in singleplayer with GM/ebony, I started making a list but then got distracted and never finished, but you can get info such as:
====================================
Barley (Calories:1045.2, Carbs:230.7, Fats:3.3, Proteins:29.4)
Cabbage (Calories:247.0, Carbs:49.0, Fats:2.0, Proteins:18.0)
Carrot (Calories:202.5, Carbs:47.5, Fats:0.5, Proteins:4.0)
Corn (Calories:85.1, Carbs:18.5, Fats:1.3, Proteins:3.2.)
Cucumber (Calories:79.0, Carbs:17.5, Fats:0.0, Proteins:3.0.)
Garlic (Calories:73.75, Carbs:16.35, Fats:0.2, Proteins:3.15)
Lettuce (Calories:64.0, Carbs:10.5, Fats:0.5, Proteins:6.5.)
Oat (Calories:1155.3, Carbs:196.8, Fats:20.4, Proteins:50.1)
Onion (Calories:99.0, Carbs:23.0, Fats:0.0, Proteins:2.5.)
Pea pod (Calories:207.5, Carbs:36.5, Fats:0.5, Proteins:13.0,)
pea (Calories:80.1, Carbs:13.8, Fats:0.3, Proteins:4.9)
Potato (Calories:381.0, Carbs:86.5, Fats:0.0, Proteins:9.5.)

stats vary based on QUALITY of ingredient so those were recorded using 99Q veggies spawned n GM mode. I never got around to finishing it once I realized I could get maxxed ccfp just by using a robust variety, but i imagine someone could make up a list for theminimaxxers. they would also want to check ingredients such as fruits, spices, dairy, breadcrumbs etc.


edit: some of this certainly seems to confirm what anon751 posted above this

[squirtikiss]

Originally posted by Retrograde:

Not sure this is a bug, as it's fine on my end.

Fails dont always give ticks, and high difficulty meals fail the roll often

I have not done any testing since I posted, but others who had been skilling quite nicely with the new, named meat, said that if they substituted the generic, old-style meat for the named meat, they received no skill ticks. Generic fillets work fine.
I have been playing WU for a long time. During that time I have made a lot of meals using the exact ingredients I recently tried. I received a skill tick on nearly every meal even when my HFC was below 20.
You say it is working fine on your end. Were you using the old-style, generic meat? The players who did some testing for me had HFC skills much higher than mine. They had had no problem getting ticks until they substituted the generic meat.

Did you guys change WU coding so that it is using the meal difficulty/HFC skill level system that WO uses? WU skilling is supposed to be based on performing a craft. It is not supposed to be based on the WO system of diminishing returns when crafting is above or below skill level.
Thank you for responding to the thread.

[Arch]

the WU server I play on I live with some crazy nutter who had 60k cooked meat before the update, and I've used that exclusively to cook to 60 hfc from 0 (on a 3x server, so only like, 6000 pans) It's all worked for me and others.

WU skilling is exactly the same, it's based on a successful action,. not a result in the 1-40 range.

Check the difficulty of the meals you are cooking.

[LokitheWeaver]

Well I just started a new game and discovered I am an idiot.

I can't even figure out how to cook rice, with the new system <LOL>

But now I guess I need to go back and see if my "breakfasts" did gain me skill. Sigh, there goes my plans for sleep, tonight : )

*edit* - did find the useful text on the new cooking system (not able to connect to internet from my real life off grid cabin, so it was nice to find some useful info.) I think I am getting skill gain from cooking those breakfasts but I have definitely been getting gains from butchering.

And silly me . . . I have been trying to cook rice with water (which is what the recipe seems to require.) But the lore hint tells me I should try adding lemon juice to the rice (at a ratio of 10%) So to cook rice, all I need to do is find a lemon tree of the appropriate age and wait . . .

*edit #2* The developers are probably laughing themselves silly, right now. Rice + H2O does work. But you have to double check the "lore" to see how much water to add, then make a special measuring cup. This game has finally become more complicated than real life. I have been making rice for half a century, using anything I can find to get a simple ratio of 1 part rice to 2 parts water <LOL>