How do I combine two heads for bodygroups?

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

I've seen this done for other xenoverse models. A goku model having the two different heads and no lines.
My model has two different parts of the head for base form and super saiyan 3. Problem is it also has a line problem due to them being separate. But if I make them into one mesh and seal the verts then how would I be able to set up the bodygroups?
here's a link to the blender file for the model
replace the DOT with a period and remove the space
https://www.mediafireDOT com/file/v8v5l9rnyb967yt/xenoversecacport.blend/file

[Pte Jack]

As long as the vertices that make the 2 masks are in the exact same place as the vertices you split the mask mesh from, and those vertices are weight painted at the split exactly the same and there are no differences in the textures at those joining points, you should have no problems (as seen here, there will be no lines at the splits.

https://i.imgur.com/pZMgpQt.png

HOWEVER, my suggestion to you is to make 2 complete heads for as body groups and reseal them, like I have here, because if you animate the mesh with bones the mesh split the way they are now you risk the chance that the mesh will split if you have the wrong body group loaded and you import the wrong sequence.

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

As long as the vertices that make the 2 masks are in the exact same place as the vertices you split the mask mesh from, and those vertices are weight painted at the split exactly the same and there are no differences in the textures at those joining points, you should have no problems (as seen here, there will be no lines at the splits.

https://i.imgur.com/pZMgpQt.png

HOWEVER, my suggestion to you is to make 2 complete heads for as body groups and reseal them, like I have here, because if you animate the mesh with bones the mesh split the way they are now you risk the chance that the mesh will split if you have the wrong body group loaded and you import the wrong sequence.

So from what im understanding is I make a copy so each forehead can go on the head, like one for base and other for ssj3. Then I use the bodygroup to make them separate and the heads will switch when I turn the bodygroup on in sfm.

[Pte Jack]

Bodygroup in the QC would be something like

$bodygroup 'head' {
studio 'head1.dmx'
studio 'head2.dmx'
}


Head1 would be the default head the model spawns with

NOWHERE ELSE is there a $body command for either of the heads that are in the bodygroup statement.

And you know that your head bones aren't connected to the neck1 bone yet right?

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

Bodygroup in the QC would be something like

$bodygroup 'head' {
studio 'head1.dmx'
studio 'head2.dmx'
}


Head1 would be the default head the model spawns with

NOWHERE ELSE is there a $body command for either of the heads that are in the bodygroup statement.

Huh, this ACTUALLY makes sense. Explains how others were able to do it with models from the same game. I figured they somehow found a way to use the same head but it didn't make sense to me.

My concern with making the copies is the weight paint, like how the armature will affect it when I do. Also I dont know how to make a copy, it's a first for me XD

[Pte Jack]

You have a lot of work to do with the weight painting, this is grabbing what I think is the base root bone and moving it.

https://i.imgur.com/IXXSpGD.png

If head 2 is weight painted to use the same bones as head 1, no problem. If the head 2 uses different bones, then both armatures from the heads are required they'll be embedded in the one armature with each other. The heads will only react to the bones they use or share.

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

You have a lot of work to do with the weight painting, this is grabbing what I think is the base root bone and moving it.

https://i.imgur.com/IXXSpGD.png

If head 2 is weight painted to use the same bones as head 1, no problem. If the head 2 uses different bones, then both armatures from the heads are required they'll be embedded in the one armature with each other. The heads will only react to the bones they use or share.

Oh yeah im well aware of the models weight issue. I unfortunately havent gotten the chance to work on the face etc. Ive been struggling with one of the arms.

Ok that eases my mind. I was always concerned about the two head meshes useing the one face bones. Some face bones are for the ssj3 eyebrows. I figured when bodygrouped and I change them they'd be affected but I wasn't too sure. This would be my first attempt at setting up bodygroups. Although its not ready for that yet. Atm im just wanting to get them ready for bodygrouping when its done.

[Pte Jack]

when you download these things, do they not already have a working rig?

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

when you download these things, do they not already have a working rig?

Unfortunately yes/no. They have the armature and are already weight painted but they are the way you see it now. The games rig doesnt follow over. I dont know if thats the export softwares doing or what. But it requires alot of rework. Im still trying to work out the clip in the right arm im working on. I dont like that it sinks into the shoulder. I was told its because the verts or islands are like that because that part is covered by the gi's sleeve so it didnt really need to be proper and I was told if I had it shirtless then the mesh would be behaving differently. But it still bugs me so ive been trying to make it look decent enough at the very least. It's been a pain in my ass for two years now.

[Pte Jack]

Looking at the model masks and the armature, they both use the same armature, but, before you start weight painting, you are going to want to get rid of the non-maniform mesh, this thing splits apart like crazy when you move the bones, or is that your handy work? (ie you've duplicated things, repainted weights and didn't get it right?)

https://i.imgur.com/jlvfJQd.png

The vertices at the splits aren't painted the same

[Pte Jack]

These are the non manifold edges in the masks, and an easy fix.

https://i.imgur.com/0pefZLY.png

Change to edit mode, edge select, Use Select by trait - Non Manifold. Press M and merge by distance 0 (zero)

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

Looking at the model masks and the armature, they both use the same armature, but, before you start weight painting, you are going to want to get rid of the non-maniform mesh, this thing splits apart like crazy when you move the bones, or is that your handy work? (ie you've duplicated things, repainted weights and didn't get it right?)

https://i.imgur.com/jlvfJQd.png

The vertices at the splits aren't painted the same

I didn't know that was even there honestly. But if its a problem for the model ill happily remove it.

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

These are the non manifold edges in the masks, and an easy fix.

https://i.imgur.com/0pefZLY.png

So its inside the faces? how will I be able to select them?

[Pte Jack]

I just updated my last post, see that

Change to edit mode, edge select, Use Select by trait - Non Manifold. Press M and merge by distance 0 (zero)

It's the old "Remove Doubles" thing

[Sir donks alot (rip my grandpa)]

Originally posted by Pte Jack:

I just updated my last post, see that

Change to edit mode, edge select, Use Select by trait - Non Manifold. Press M and merge by distance 0 (zero)

It's the old "Remove Doubles" thing

so im merging the non manifold? What exactly IS a non manifold mesh? Just curious and confused with what iti s

[Pte Jack]

See in that first shot where the mesh is splitting when I move the bones?

The mesh is split there, (as seen in the selected non manifold edges in the second shot) which means that the mesh was ripped (like tearing a piece of paper then lay it down and pressing it back together to make it look whole again, there's an edge on both sides of the rip. The rip is non-manifold)
The split occurs because the doubled vertices on the 2 sides of the tear are not weight painted the same or the bone that is being moved has a greater influence on the vertices at the split than the other controlling bone.

The masks themselves would be non-manifold from the head (if you joined the meshes together with an Ctrl+J...
The vertices around the edges would be doubled (in the exact same place, but one for each mesh, the masks and the head.)

This is not a problem for the mask because the vertices that make the edges are also weight painted exactly the same. So they move together and don't separate when posed.

Removing the doubles fixes that problem inside the mask and makes the mesh manifold (contiguous, no splits).