PVP damage vs PVE damage

[Zury]

I was watching some old footage from the last beta and i noticed you do like 4-6 times less damage in PVP vs PVE.

I remember i only had something like low 20's %damage reduction from armor so there must be some hidden dmg resistance in place to make the pvp part feel slower.

[Vllth]

That so not true...iv PvP people have dif Armor and HP also they move fast so you miss a lot of rounds...One of the good things about Division is save Gear for PvE and DZ just dif means of obtaing it.

[Zury]

For the level we had in beta i doubt enyone had higher then 30% damage reduction from armor.
And while you seemed to do full damage in PVE, in PVP there was an artificial reduction on your damage.

400+ bullet damage in pvp even on optimal range you would see low 100's beeing displayed. Thats 70% ish damage reduction in a beta where no talents no pasives are available.

PS: Just rewatched a pvp video: 140(white damage) body damage in pvp, 400 body damage on an npc(white damage) that flanked the guy. All this in close range skirmish.

[Landor]

From what I could guess, NPCs don't have damage reduction, while players do. And as others have suggested there was reduction of your damage on players.

[Zury]

Ok... npc's have no armor so they take full damage.
Players have armor so they take less damage.
Hidden extra dmg reduction because shooting another agent.

Whaaaaat?

this will mess up the balance in stats for the pvp part

lets say gun damage and health follow a linear growth
if you stack stamina you have the edge in pvp because of the hidden pvp damage reduction.
Why would i stack a stat that allready gets reduced by 2 atributes ? (armor and the "hidden magical pvp reduction")

[Baron01]

There is innate damage reduction in PvP. It is baked in from very start, therevfore, It wont mess balance. I was scoring 7k headshots on NPCs and barely over 2k on players. It makes sense because NPCs have significantly more HP than players, they also have armor on top. PvP would be all about 1 shots if such mechanic was not in place.

[Zury]

ok.
But how does that not mess up balance ?

If damage suffers reduction in pvp from armor plus that pvp penalty what is gonna convince players that gear that adds more damage will be better or equal to stacking health ?

The line between archetypes will become blurry..
This remind me of an old "m m o" game where everybody will get enough stats to equip a weapon and dump the rest in health, and the main damage source in pvp were skill usage. The division has pretty big cooldowns on skills so most of the time you rely on normal gun damage.

I get this weird feeling that the division will suffer from this also.
War of attrition and the power of sustain.

If damage has 2 reduction penalties and tech suffers from cooldown then only health is left as the only viable stat.
Armor comes at same value no matter what atribute that gear slot equipment buffs and the ammount of armor given will be based on the level of gear.

example:
5k dps 4k health vs 4k dps 7k health
in pvp lets say 50% reduction so
2.5k dps 4k health vs 2k dps 7k health


in beta the decision was : should i add 30 more firearms for 300 more dps or should i add 30 more stamina for 1k health more ?

Stamina masterrace !!

[shelledfade]

lmao, even less reason to get this crappy. Hidden dr in pvp, wow. What carebear chauncy noob worked on these mechanics? I mean wow, they must be the saltiest scrub ever.

This game should have stayed on carebear-consoles with such horrendous mechanics in place.

[Mikouen]

The difference, as stated, is that players have armour and resistance bonuses, while NPCs never do.

You can scale HP, which is why mobs get oodles of the stuff. Scaling HP and armour would be more difficult to grade along a levelling curve, due to first requiring two separate algorithms and then a third algorithm, all of which need to be adjusted to compensate for each other.

Assuming you can balance all three stat curves, independently and as a trio, you then have the problem where if you ever change one, all three have to be reworked.

Hence why it's so rare for any NPC profile in a game to have even half of the stat values a player character has.


By contrast, another player's entity stats don't have to be automatically scaled up or down at any point. They have their equipment, they have their values, and that's that.

[PvtBootyClap]

Zury eredeti hozzászólása:

I was watching some old footage from the last beta and i noticed you do like 4-6 times less damage in PVP vs PVE.

I remember i only had something like low 20's %damage reduction from armor so there must be some hidden dmg resistance in place to make the pvp part feel slower.

It all matters on how they build..... I build pure dps ... so i die alot faster but also kill alot faster.... My friend builds HP so he is a bullet sponge but cannot dish out dmg as fast i can...

[Auran77]

I think there is %60-%50 damage mitigation on pvp. I think I have read some where on official forums...

[Zero]

Aurangzeb eredeti hozzászólása:

I think there is %60-%50 damage mitigation on pvp. I think I have read some where on official forums...

if this was the case, then going rogue would be harder. you can go rogue in 1 shot, all you need to do is hit a damage threshhold (20%) of the persons total health i believe i heard being tossed around. now your complaining about them not taking as much damage?

[t4ks]

i was thinking something similar. I always felt like damage is so damn low on players, so i checked it with my liberator, that made 595 dmg per hit, when i was shooting at a lv 7 rookie i was dealing dmg (pop up numbers) around ~220 per hit. that would be a redcution over 50%, and this guy was never near beta full gear. I tried to search the resistance tab in the character stats page and even I got with complete purple gear 29,5 % damage resistance.

[Digby]

As others have pointed out theres an innate PvP damage reduction.

Worked rather well i found. Made you able to take a few hits but not invincible.
Players are supposed to feel tougher than NPCs. So we do.

[Zury]

Mikouen eredeti hozzászólása:

The difference, as stated, is that players have armour and resistance bonuses, while NPCs never do.

ok and we have a limited ammount of interaction between players and npc. Who knows later on the other npcs from the 2 missing factions might have different values on armor/dmg reduction/hp.

but for pvp the only reason why would someone add a forced damage penalty is to prolongue the engagement, to make it feel like you have time to take cover, use some skills ... get down tonight... etc

The part that is bothering me is why have separate instances ?
I mean if they add the damage penalty in pvp why not make it universaly true and add it to the PVE part also and lower hp/"armor shield" on npcs also ? So at least you look at your dps and say ok i am gonna do this much damage +/- %target armor reduction.

The way i see it now:
Why would i add a bit more damage that is gonna get reduced to crap in pvp when i can get more health and give myself a lot more time to outsurvive my oponents.

[Zury]

Jet eredeti hozzászólása:

As others have pointed out theres an innate PvP damage reduction.

Worked rather well i found. Made you able to take a few hits but not invincible.
Players are supposed to feel tougher than NPCs. So we do.

in an rpg game that this game is boasting to be i need to look at my character sheet and trust the numbers i see!

i see my armor beeing xxx and that gives me %xx damage reduction
i see my damage beeing xyz giving me xxx dps

why overcomplicate things and have different pvp/pve values ?
treat the enemy AI the same as enemy players.