Complaints about Bullfrog

[SWORDLION]

To people who complains that the Bullfrog is behind the m4 family, has less dmg, less stability etc etc.. You people either don't know how to make it great or just talking nonsense.

The weapon has higher damage output than m4 and has higher rate of fire idk how the hell you guys tell it has lower damage and without using a single stability mode you can make it stable thru backpack stability attribute and striker gear, that way you benefit from the Uncomplicated much more resulting in higher damage than any m4.So the Bullfrog is in a fine place I think.

[Serangel]

So I did some paper testing with the Bullfrog, Liberator, and LWM4

This screenshot shows the three different AR's fireing at 10 and 30 feet with no stab mod and not controlled (fired the weapon with out moving the mouse to compensate for muzzle drift). More detail on the screenshot discription. In the BoO the closest target is 10 feet and the second target is 30 feet. These are the distances I used outside on the vehicles for testing.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343955706

This screen shot is the same three weapons uncontrolled at 10 feet with stability mods.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343957644

Here are all three weapons stab modded and controlled at 10 and 30 feet.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343959566

Lastly is a comparison of the bullfrog controlled, one group with stab mods, and one group with out at 10 and 30 feet.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343962006

Results will vary depending on the player as some are better at control than others, how ever the evidence is clear that the bullfrog is very noticably different than a LWM4 in terms of grouping.

Here are the damages for all three weapons. Tested in the BoO in the shooting range. No stat changes other than the weapon. The liberator does not have brutal like the bullfrog and LWM4 do so its HS damage is a bit lower. The same mods were used with the exception for one test with the bullfrog with using no stab mods. On the non stab mods he same 6% HS on muzzle and 5.5% on optic were used to keep the same stats as the stab mod.

Bull frog - RPM 900
Body 19644
Head 38993

No Stab/Acc
Body 20272
Head 40240

Liberator - RPM 850
Body 19473
Head 36220

LWM4 - RPM 850
Body 19473
Head 38654

As the raw numbers show, the Bullfrog does have a very small damage increase over the LWM4 and a decent increase with no stab mods to only headshot, body shots are still a small increase. The small ROF slightly increases the over all dps, and the ability to use more CHC and CHD mods also increase its over all DPS.

On paper the bullfrog has a clear advantage in damage over the LWM4. How ever in the field, you arnt 100% accurate. Targets are moving, bullet spread is a large factor and with how large the bullfrogs spred is at 30 feet and farther, you will be missing a fair number of shots which lowers your dps. Raw damage will be lost and crit stats slashed with the misses.

At 10-15 feet the grouping differences were really small, if you are doing something CQB, taking the higher damage weapon will probably be a better bet.

As I said, these results will vary depending on the player, but for me, in PVE, the M4 is far more accurate and i am able to keep more rounds on targets than with using a bullfrog making my dps higher.

[SWORDLION]

Red Jello님이 먼저 게시:

For PVE the bullfrog is better than the M4 , I have played with the bullfrog about 500 hrs now with many builds and every time in pve the bullfrog does more damage , even with alpha bridge the bullfrog just out preformed any assault rifle I own . I am even only using 17.5 stability from back pack still works great for me , trick for bullfrog is reload speed , 22.5% from holster and 30.5% from grip running 12% head shot damage mods as well,
The M4 is a great gun but after tweeking my bullfrog it is s superior weapon for pve , and in my striker build I have 74% EAD , 32.5% stability , 53% reload spd , the RoF from bullfrog gets stacks so fast , so in hands of striker amazing

This

[SWORDLION]

JazzBlueChally님이 먼저 게시:

KILIÇARSLAN님이 먼저 게시:

No, it has higher damage IF you can make great use of Uncomplicated + higher rate of fire, majority uses it cause of the stability issues coming from Bullfrog or couldn't get yet one.At the end it comes to preference though.

Even with uncomplicated talent it's still weak.

It was only used in pvp during the alpha/ famas meta because you could bridge it now, no one uses it because the handling on the M4/LVOA is better.

Bullfrog needs a rework because it's very erratic, I'd use it if they bumped the damage up and improved the handling.

It's a beast up close with striker.

Serangel님이 먼저 게시:

So I did some paper testing with the Bullfrog, Liberator, and LWM4

This screenshot shows the three different AR's fireing at 10 and 30 feet with no stab mod and not controlled (fired the weapon with out moving the mouse to compensate for muzzle drift). More detail on the screenshot discription. In the BoO the closest target is 10 feet and the second target is 30 feet. These are the distances I used outside on the vehicles for testing.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343955706

This screen shot is the same three weapons uncontrolled at 10 feet with stability mods.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343957644

Here are all three weapons stab modded and controlled at 10 and 30 feet.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343959566

Lastly is a comparison of the bullfrog controlled, one group with stab mods, and one group with out at 10 and 30 feet.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343962006

Results will vary depending on the player as some are better at control than others, how ever the evidence is clear that the bullfrog is very noticably different than a LWM4 in terms of grouping.

Here are the damages for all three weapons. Tested in the BoO in the shooting range. No stat changes other than the weapon. The liberator does not have brutal like the bullfrog and LWM4 do so its HS damage is a bit lower. The same mods were used with the exception for one test with the bullfrog with using no stab mods. On the non stab mods he same 6% HS on muzzle and 5.5% on optic were used to keep the same stats as the stab mod.

Bull frog - RPM 900
Body 19644
Head 38993

No Stab/Acc
Body 20272
Head 40240

Liberator - RPM 850
Body 19473
Head 36220

LWM4 - RPM 850
Body 19473
Head 38654

As the raw numbers show, the Bullfrog does have a very small damage increase over the LWM4 and a decent increase with no stab mods to only headshot, body shots are still a small increase. The small ROF slightly increases the over all dps, and the ability to use more CHC and CHD mods also increase its over all DPS.

On paper the bullfrog has a clear advantage in damage over the LWM4. How ever in the field, you arnt 100% accurate. Targets are moving, bullet spread is a large factor and with how large the bullfrogs spred is at 30 feet and farther, you will be missing a fair number of shots which lowers your dps. Raw damage will be lost and crit stats slashed with the misses.

At 10-15 feet the grouping differences were really small, if you are doing something CQB, taking the higher damage weapon will probably be a better bet.

As I said, these results will vary depending on the player, but for me, in PVE, the M4 is far more accurate and i am able to keep more rounds on targets than with using a bullfrog making my dps higher.

Great explanation, I appreciated.Yes it depends on the player so much, I have 946 rate of fire with my bullfrog and I can keep the weapon on the target even if they are moving, maybe that's why I see it better than m4.Even with Alpha Bridge, I'm doing better with Bullfrog.There's still people indicating it's still weak even with Uncomplicated, they either can't control it or don't know how to make it great.

[Hawk]

So I guess it's one of the first high ROF weapons to require accuracy well above average and uncanny ability to continue following a target while on the move, even when the NPCs sprint at super-human speeds. Ah well.

*At least when using this weapon with as few stab/acc mod buffs as possible.

[East]

I ran Bullfrog for quite some time in the DZ but ultimately got bored of it. The 15% don't really scale well with my Striker. M4 is where it's at for me now. Even then I never used the FAMAS for it's stupid 3rd Talent, but because I like myself a good FAMAS. Now I happily use my free 3rd slot for my prefered good stuff like Determined or Competent.

It's good to fight House Kids that need to be in your face to do any damage, meaning the ridiculous spray can be neglected.

[Hawk]

rip East님이 먼저 게시:

I ran Bullfrog for quite some time in the DZ but ultimately got bored of it. The 15% don't really scale well with my Striker. M4 is where it's at for me now. Even then I never used the FAMAS for it's stupid 3rd Talent, but because I like myself a good FAMAS. Now I happily use my free 3rd slot for my prefered good stuff like Determined or Competent.

It's good to fight House Kids that need to be in your face to do any damage, meaning the ridiculous spray can be neglected.

Yeah I'm seeing that, at times it works, other time I feel like I'm trying to play a totally different game just because of the awful double-edged sword talent. I'm running what I guess is a Striker crit build with a good House and the Famas, at times it works, other times I don't know, still feels like I'm shooting marshmallows at them.

I’m sure if I had 2 good talents it may do better but I do not so I have to make due with what I have.

[Red Jello]

I can agree complaint about bullfrog in pvp , but you are better running a smg in pvp anyway , but in pve targets are not moving much so landing shots with bullfrog is easy , was running napalm last night with critical outbreak on legendary and had not issues getting head shots in but I am 32.5% stability with my striker

[Hawk]

Red Jello님이 먼저 게시:

I can agree complaint about bullfrog in pvp , but you are better running a smg in pvp anyway , but in pve targets are not moving much so landing shots with bullfrog is easy , was running napalm last night with critical outbreak on legendary and had not issues getting head shots in but I am 32.5% stability with my striker

52% Stab on my build but zero accuracy, still feels like the thing is way too wild because I'm having to concentrate more on recoil control rather then following the target so I end up mising a lot.

[SWORDLION]

Hawk님이 먼저 게시:

Red Jello님이 먼저 게시:

I can agree complaint about bullfrog in pvp , but you are better running a smg in pvp anyway , but in pve targets are not moving much so landing shots with bullfrog is easy , was running napalm last night with critical outbreak on legendary and had not issues getting head shots in but I am 32.5% stability with my striker

52% Stab on my build but zero accuracy, still feels like the thing is way too wild because I'm having to concentrate more on recoil control rather then following the target so I end up mising a lot.

Interesting, same stab I have and I can keep my shots on target even when there's more than 50 meters between us, it's a beast.