Multiplayer?

[Fashdey]

Hey Hellerphant,

I've played the Alpha Release on Moddb looooong time ago, which featured a "simple" multiplayer, and I've been revisiting the page lots of times, and actually thought it was completely dead, now it appears here :D!!!

But I see it's listed in store as Single Player (No Multiplayer)? :(
Is it mislabled or is it the facts? :S

Best Regards,
Fashdey

[Hellerphant]

At this stage, multiplayer will not be available for launch. It's something that we have in the pipeline - the multiplayer in the alpha version is basic, and if we were to release multiplayer in the final product, we would want to make sure it's worth playing.

[Fashdey]

Awesome! :D
Just had to know if it were planned or completely withdrawn ;)

I might consider getting it at release just for supporting at early stage, as I feel the missing of a MP Hacking game <33

[soad667]

So our cd trays are safe for now.. :P

[Hellerphant]

For now soad667, for now......,

[Luxia]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

in all honesty id rather not see the CD tray option in full release ... alot of us have covers on our machines now and i have a very inquisitive kitten ... i dont really see why i have to be physically punished when playing a game in the comfort of my own home.

It woulda been fun when i was 17 but im 32 now and its not funny its actually a total pain ... not to mention that ppl run multiple processes ... have u considered the ramifications of a game that can CANCEL an installation???, stop a CD burning?

Really do not think this is a wise feature to put in a full product.


I used to mess with Sub7 and all the fun little programs when i was young i know EXACTLY what the appeal is here but the point is the kind of programs that have that sorta functionality are not really considered "mass market" ;)

Hey, but when you're burning a CD/whatever, does someone force you to play Hacknet/play multiplayer? No.

[soad667]

I'm over 30 and i still find the feature fun(ny), or at least certainly something interesting to be there for people to witness at least once.

But i completely agree on the part that they must clearly mention it. The way i see it, they should make it a toggle-able feature (default to off) and the first time you enter multiplayer, a popup message should let you know about that feature and if you want to enable it.

[Fashdey]

I don't know how the multiplayer would be setup, but if kind of lobby / server system, you as a player could see the game settings like different game modes (if any other than standard) and settings if your pc will be manipulated on X Y Z, and then the players can join the servers of their liking :)

[Luxia]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

Yea i knew someone would say that.

Unless you are going to put a clause on the storepage stating that it is advised you do NOT use your CD Drive while playing this game in multiplayer - including watching movies on another monitor, listening to music, burning CD's, installing apps then i am afraid your comment means nothing.

Since it is not the status quo nor is it expected by any gamer that a game will manipulate their machine physically.

Now you stick that on the store page and watch how many sales you lose.

Raddenson11 like i said when i was 17 it would be funny ... but im not 17 anymore and the generation of gamers that existed during this time are not 17 anymore either.

Unless you are going to put a clear warning NOT a feature, an official warning of what the product can do on the store page then the "yea but it doesn't force you" argument doesn't work.

You know, these days I don't really use CDs/DVDs, all thanks to the digital distribution. Of course, I'm not saying everyone isn't - I know few people who do it very frequently.
But, @Princess Fashdei has came up with a clever solution which I was thinking about too. Setting like that would be very useful for people who don't want their PC be manipulated by the game. :)

[Luxia]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

I don't think any of it is clever because when you break it all down. It is a tremendous amount of work for the sake of people opening your DVD Drive.
That's the problem i have here in my life i've been tech, dev and salesman and the more i think about this and the more i talk about the ifs and buts the more it is blatantly obvious this is a feature that should be cut.

You are all basing your opinions off of what YOU do and the fact is you wouldn't be here defending it if it wasn't the case you didn't care you need to look outside the box and see a bigger picture.

Not to mention your so-called "clever" solution isolates half a community that will most probably NOT be very large to begin with. You guys are being far far too personal and closed minded on this.

I don't think that disallowing the game to process certain commands with the use of settings is very hard to do. You know, not everything needs ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of work to function.
And for the community: Do you have to play multiplayer, again? No, you don't have to. You want this option to be completely removed from the game. And why is that? I don't see the point in any of this.

[Fashdey]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

I don't think any of it is clever because when you break it all down. It is a tremendous amount of work for the sake of people opening your DVD Drive.
That's the problem i have here in my life i've been tech, dev and salesman and the more i think about this and the more i talk about the ifs and buts the more it is blatantly obvious this is a feature that should be cut.

You are all basing your opinions off of what YOU do and the fact is you wouldn't be here defending it if it wasn't the case you didn't care you need to look outside the box and see a bigger picture.

Not to mention your so-called "clever" solution isolates half a community that will most probably NOT be very large to begin with. You guys are being far far too personal and closed minded on this.

Currently it's a planned feature and by the arguments of removing this / other related features, I just suggest how to still include this and let the players choose if they want to use this or not, rather than removing it completely and limiting the game, remember some games are purely made by the developers' wish/visions for the game.

You are the one acting on situations you might be in, and yes maybe it's "isolating" the community, but wouldn't that be the same to only include "De_Dust 2" in CS, rather than having maps like Cs_Assault, Cs_Militia, etc. "Other less played levels" ?
- People still choose which map / settings they want to play with.

[Luxia]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

I don't think that disallowing the game to process certain commands with the use of settings is very hard to do.

You and i are not even talking on the same level.

I will explain one thing to you: Your attitude.
It's exactly like this: HURR DURR I WILL NOT USE IT SO IT'S USELESS
Why we're not talking on the same level? Because I said that disabling the command via settings is not hard? Or because that means the command will be not removed from the game even if you want it to be?

[Luxia]

Another problem of yours - you're judging how old I am, which you DON'T KNOW, and never will.
You've made opening the tray a big problem. We said, it could be negated by settings of the game. But NOPE, it's useless! Let's completely remove the command because of your "bigger picture". Ifs and buts?
Please, man. This command, for the "close minded", stupid people like me could be funny. Yet you want it to be removed.
Why, I ask again?
Why not let others have their fun?
Others, who don't mind/don't have a problem with this?

[Luxia]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

I know you are not generation X, i know you are not in your 30's and i know you have never spent a day in software development.

I know this because of your answers and your answers alone.

As for having your fun - you prove my point 100% ... and tell me who is liable when the tray flies open and my cat pounces on it and breaks the tray clean off??? who is liable for that ?

In this situation, you are - no one is forcing you to a) play multiplayer b) if a) applies and the settings may be true, playing with the manipulating commands active, if you DID, I repeat - DID know about the risk before.
But, you were right before, I don't have to even admit it because I know this aswell - if the information about the risk isn't shared properly, things like you described CAN and WILL happen. Moreover, I know more situations in which tray would get damaged when opened, example may be blocked way of the tray. On this point - you were right.
But, I don't have a cat or anything that would put my tray in danger. Moreover, I know I am responsible if anything happens then, because I know that something may happen. Yet, you want to remove it so I can't have fun with it, just like people like me. Now you're the one showing the situation from your perspective, just like I did before.
As of your earlier statement:
"But with every sentence you show that the age gap people seem to delude themselves has nothing to do with anything."
I don't think like that at all. More, I know that every person looks at things differently, exactly like you and me right now, and many factors alter their point of view. Example - age, of course. Gender. Knowledge.
You have your valid reasons for which you want the command to be removed.
I have my valid reasons for which I don't want it to be.
You probably know that situations like this happened, happen and will happen.

//edit: You wrote another post in time I was writing mine, oops.
I agree with you all the way, because I know you are right, there is no point of arguing about these in particular.
CPU fan speed manipulation. This one is, I think and hope, actually not in even consideration/idea never ever. And I would, of course, dislike that option heavily if it existed - it's actually very dangerous to everyone regardless, which you and me both know, I see.
About more experienced players, it's all based about what can they could actually do. If they don't cause DIRECT harm, like you put it earlier, by altering my GPU fan speeds, I'm fine. But, I'm not fine with, for example, disabling my PC's input/output. No.

[Fenix]

Originally posted by Raddenson11:

In this situation, you are - no one is forcing you to a) play multiplayer b) if a) applies and the settings may be true, playing with the manipulating commands active, if you DID, I repeat - DID know about the risk before.

And this is exacty where the 'splitting the community' comes in. As Obiwan has mentioned elsewhere this kind of game has quite a niche market, one where the community size tends to be quite a bit smaller than most other multiplayer games (which is why the comparison to CS:GO is kind of a stretch). Catering to this feature being a togglable option (which is the ONLY way in which I personally think it can be remotely safely implemented) means separating those players who wish to use the feature from those players who do not wish to use the feature, making an already relatively small community into two smaller factions of players.

As you said Rad, do we need to play multiplayer if we don't like the feature? No, we don't. But with that attitude in mind, how many players are going to walk away from multiplayer? Or if we do get the server side settings matching players with other players like themselves, what happens if one side of the community is smaller and makes it harder to be matched with? They will most likely lose interest because they have long waits or not many people to play with. Now you might say, 'thats what happens if people dont like a feature of a game' and its true if people dont like something they can choose not to play, but the developers have to take this into account when they decide to implement something that may potentially cause this split... how many players are they willing to lose due to the implementation of a fun feature?

Obiwan was not directly saying 'drop this feature!' he was raising his opinion on that it might not be desired be the entire community due to differing situations when playing games (ie, kittens, hardware setups, concurrent activities occupying the disc drive) and was trying to explain how the proposed solution of a toggleable setting is a bit more convoluted then adding the logic


if cdTrayHackable()
{
openCDTray()
}
else
{
// do nothing
}


because the only way to implement this feature safely (both liability wise for them, and physically safe for user computers) requires more consideration than just which lines of code to program and may have sales repurcussions that the devs need to consider in their decision.

Personally, I understand the novelty of the feature but its not something I particularly care to have in the game. If it was implemented correctly as a toggleable setting than great, both sides of the community have what they want *but* this may have come with more baggage than people are thinking.

[Luxia]

Originally posted by Obiwan:

You don't like it at all but i am afraid you are proving the point. You see it as having your fun but when i presented a case where you wouldn't find it fun immediately you are against it.

No, I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I knew what you meant from the beginning.

Originally posted by Obiwan:

THAT is the issue. The demographic that things because it's OK for them its OK as opposed to accepting that even if THEY think it is OK others might not and RESPECTING that.

Again, like I just said in my post above, I know that you, me - everyone can see things differently.

Originally posted by Obiwan:

You would be furious if i did not respect how far you are willing to be attacked? so why do you have the audacity to demand you get your fun because it's ok for you?

Again, I respect your point of view. We both do have, and you probably know this, our points we take for valid.

Originally posted by Obiwan:

Again i mentioned age because i am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. People older than me are generation X and frankly i can't see ANY generation X member defending the right to damage things that cost money. We come from 2 very different cultures/childhoods/upbringings.

I agree on that - again.

Originally posted by Obiwan:

Where i come from i RESPECT other peoples property and when someone says "hey man i dont like that idea because u know my stuff could get damaged" i do not argue the point that they are spoiling my fun.

That is the point i am trying to get across and that is repeatedly flying over your head. [/quote]
It did get across, as I've said already.