Can we get a story summary/explanation? [SPOILERS]

[Gaming-is-for-losers]

A played The Cat Lady a long time ago and loved it. I just finished Downfall today.

I'll be honest, I'm not the best with game stories. Especially ones that are so intricate and detailed like this one. So I just want to start from the top and work this all out.


1) How many endings are there, and what do they mean? What events in the game lead up to the ending?

2) Who is Agnes and what does she represent?

3) Was Joe hallucinating the ENTIRE thing? At the end, when Susan is seen going about the apartment and such it makes it seem like Joe has been imagining it the entire time but still emulating the actions. Like the cat in the oven thing. He's done the bad actions in real life, but imagined them a bit differently.

4) Who/what is Sophie exactly?

A general recap:
Can someone summarize the story (thorough, but concise) until the end.

I can telll the games story is supposed to GRIP ME and ENGULF ME and I really want it to. But I'm just too confused to let it all come together. it's the type of game that has so many intricate details, so many nuances, so many tiny hooks and bumps and you can spend HOURS on forums trying to dissect it all.

[Stigma]

I can't possibly explain everything, but pretty much what you said. Joe's been going on a killing rampage throughout the apartment building in Helen road. I believe Sophie and Agnes are avatars of Ivy. Still trying to figure out the rest

[Heaven Smile]

I'll try Sorry for any grammar mistakes.

1) There are three endings and they depend on so called "Tendency Events". You can read it up here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=627247738
So basically there is a good ending, a bad ending and a "normal" ending.
a) In the normal ending ("On The Run") we see Joe leaving/fleeing the burning building with the corpse of Ivy.
b) In the good ending ("Golden") Ivy comes back to life and she and Joe are leaving the building. It's not clear, if Ivy really is reborn or it's just Joe's imagination on coming to terms with her. Maybe the next game will clarify that.
c) In the bad ending Susan kills Joe and let both him and Ivy burn together. Susan, in my interpretation, became the new Eye of Adam.

2) Agnes is a special part of Ivy. As it stated in one of the final dialogues in the game, she represents the part of Ivy, whom Joe fell in love for. She is a cheerful and good person, maybe she's how Joe saw Ivy in his own eyes. Btw, the wedding dress is the same dress Ivy wore.

3) Mostly. It seems that Joe is suffering a mental breakdown after Ivy's death, at first he suppresses her death and tries everything to come back with her together. Even when he faces her death near the end of the game, he can't let it go and tries to reanimate her in Frankenstein-Style. I think, Joe murdered at least five people in the apartment block, as suggested in the newspaper, while he thought he killed the incarnations of Sophie.

4) The four Sophies are incarnations of Ivy:
a) Child Sophie: She's depressed and wants to die. Because she's afraid, she's asking Joe to help her. In the prologue we see Joe meeting Ivy for the first time; Ivy is a quiet little girl who seems to have depressions and an eating disorder.
b) Teen/young adult Sophie: She sees herself as a fat girl and wants to eat like a pig. She's in love with Harrison, who represents the society or rather the society in Ivy's eyes; she wasn't fat at all but however, he calls her like that.
c) Adult/fat Sophie (in the bathroom): That's how Ivy saw herself: A fat and disgusting being.
d) Monster/final Sophie: I also think that's how Ivy saw herself in her final stage; now she's not only fat and disgusting, she's also a Monster.

I noticed something: All Sophies wear a mask, like the axe murderer. The axe murderer is Joe himself. Maybe he is someone like the Red Pyramid Thing in Silent Hill 2: Pyramid Head represents the wish for punishment of the main protagonist James and is somewhat a "mirror" for James. The axe murderer "kills" Joe many times; maybe he blamed himself for Ivy's death and seeks for punishment.

I'll try to write down a recap in the next post :)
Oh and I wanted to add: These are just my interpretations, so maybe they're not correct...

[Heaven Smile]

So for the recap:

Joe met Ivy the first time when they were young, as seen in the prologue. Ivy is a shy and quiet little girl who seems to have an eating disorder. While her Mom is eating at the restaurant, she has to wait outside. Maybe that's the origin of her mental problems. Then there's the scene with the death of Joe's brother - Joe couldn't save him. Eventually, Joe's Mom killed herself.

Later on Joe and Ivy met again, they never mentioned the incident with Joe's brother again. They got married and lived in a little apartment in Helen Road, dreaming of a big house and a nice car. Ivy's depression and eating disorder became bigger and bigger, she saw herself as fat and disgusting and as if like everyone around her hates her for that reason. Although Joe tried to do his best to cheer up his wife (or not, depends on your very own behavior, as seen in the bed scene flashback), it was no use - Ivy's voice in her head became stronger and forced her to eat less (as seen in the bathroom flashback). Joe even tried to feed her, in the dining room you can see a chair with chains, but again it was no use. Eventually, Ivy died of anorexia; Susan mentions in the end of the game that Ivy is just nothing but skin and bones.

That's when Joe's mental downfall began, I think. He couldn't cope with his wife's death and is obsessed with bringing her back to life. He somehow brought different items like the generator and so on in the apartment's basement to do so. He imagined a different place, the Quiet Haven Hotel. The name speaks for itself!

So Joe imagined the vacation of him and his wife in that hotel. It's stated that they both have problems and Joe wants to solve them. It's unclear if Ivy really was like that we see her in the fight scene, or it's just Joe's imagination. But we see Ivy as the depressed woman she was, it doesn't matter how nice Joe responds to her or in any way he compliments her, she always turns the compliments in a negative aspect. Now the player can decide if he wants to break up with her or not, it's one of the Tendency Events.

In the next morning, Ivy is gone. The manageress states that Sophie somehow kidnapped her and Joe begins to look for her. I think, her disappearance is a symbol for her death. Sophie, Ivy's incarnation, crept over her - it's like the bad opinion Ivy had of herself crept over her and led her to death. And because Joe can't let her go, he tries to find her/bring her back, no matter what nasty things he has to do. So in order to progress, he has to kill the four memories of Sophie. In the meantime he reanimates Agnes, another incarnation of Ivy, but a different one as the Sophies (Agnes is the part of Ivy whom Joe fell in love for, his light in the darkness). Agnes accompanies Joe and even when she's complaining about his actions (killing), he can't stop, he wants Ivy back.

As for Agnes's part, where she's on her own, I think you can compare that part with Silent Hill 2's "Born from a Wish" scenario, where you play as Maria. Maria is a different version of the main protagonist James's wife Mary, who came to life because of James's strong wish to see Mary again.

The manageress is the perfect woman for Joe, as she stated herself, I think. She's beautiful, makes clear offers and especially is self-confident, in contrast to Ivy. Maybe Joe got sick of his wife's problems and dreamt of another woman who doesn't have mental problems. But in the end, he decides to kill her nevertheless. This reminded me again of Silent Hill 2, too.

In the end, after Joe killed the last Sophie, he finds Ivy - dead. Now he's finally facing her death but still can't let it go. He carries her corpse to the basement to reanimate her. It doesn't work and while Joe is writhing in pain, he speaks to many "persons" he met before and the Queen who states that Joe is the sixth parasite (see The Cat Lady, Susan has to kill bad persons called as parasites). Before and while that happens, Susan from next door wakes up and begins to look for Joe. She finds both him and Ivy and thinks that Joe did that to her. She attacks him and now it depends on your behavior through the game, which ending you get.

That's how I interpreted the game (love it!!). I know I compare it a lot with Silent Hill 2 (btw one of my favorite games ever), but there are so many similarities that this can't be coincidence.

As for me, I didn't get the meaning of the Queen of the Maggots. Is she a God, the Devil, Death or maybe somehow everything all together? Looking forward to Rem's next game and I hope we see Susan and Joe once again (love them!)

[Stigma]

Okay. So I wasn't the only one starting to reminisence of Silent Hill 2..

[Stigma]

Just played it again, and yes; it kinda screams Silent Hill 2. I agree, there are so many similarities that it can't possibly be ignored. Albeit, the story and conclusion is entirely different of course.

[GreenAtmosphere]

Originally posted by Heaven Smile:

So for the recap:

Joe met Ivy the first time when they were young, as seen in the prologue. Ivy is a shy and quiet little girl who seems to have an eating disorder. While her Mom is eating at the restaurant, she has to wait outside. Maybe that's the origin of her mental problems. Then there's the scene with the death of Joe's brother - Joe couldn't save him. Eventually, Joe's Mom killed herself.

Later on Joe and Ivy met again, they never mentioned the incident with Joe's brother again. They got married and lived in a little apartment in Helen Road, dreaming of a big house and a nice car. Ivy's depression and eating disorder became bigger and bigger, she saw herself as fat and disgusting and as if like everyone around her hates her for that reason. Although Joe tried to do his best to cheer up his wife (or not, depends on your very own behavior, as seen in the bed scene flashback), it was no use - Ivy's voice in her head became stronger and forced her to eat less (as seen in the bathroom flashback). Joe even tried to feed her, in the dining room you can see a chair with chains, but again it was no use. Eventually, Ivy died of anorexia; Susan mentions in the end of the game that Ivy is just nothing but skin and bones.

That's when Joe's mental downfall began, I think. He couldn't cope with his wife's death and is obsessed with bringing her back to life. He somehow brought different items like the generator and so on in the apartment's basement to do so. He imagined a different place, the Quiet Haven Hotel. The name speaks for itself!

So Joe imagined the vacation of him and his wife in that hotel. It's stated that they both have problems and Joe wants to solve them. It's unclear if Ivy really was like that we see her in the fight scene, or it's just Joe's imagination. But we see Ivy as the depressed woman she was, it doesn't matter how nice Joe responds to her or in any way he compliments her, she always turns the compliments in a negative aspect. Now the player can decide if he wants to break up with her or not, it's one of the Tendency Events.

In the next morning, Ivy is gone. The manageress states that Sophie somehow kidnapped her and Joe begins to look for her. I think, her disappearance is a symbol for her death. Sophie, Ivy's incarnation, crept over her - it's like the bad opinion Ivy had of herself crept over her and led her to death. And because Joe can't let her go, he tries to find her/bring her back, no matter what nasty things he has to do. So in order to progress, he has to kill the four memories of Sophie. In the meantime he reanimates Agnes, another incarnation of Ivy, but a different one as the Sophies (Agnes is the part of Ivy whom Joe fell in love for, his light in the darkness). Agnes accompanies Joe and even when she's complaining about his actions (killing), he can't stop, he wants Ivy back.

As for Agnes's part, where she's on her own, I think you can compare that part with Silent Hill 2's "Born from a Wish" scenario, where you play as Maria. Maria is a different version of the main protagonist James's wife Mary, who came to life because of James's strong wish to see Mary again.

The manageress is the perfect woman for Joe, as she stated herself, I think. She's beautiful, makes clear offers and especially is self-confident, in contrast to Ivy. Maybe Joe got sick of his wife's problems and dreamt of another woman who doesn't have mental problems. But in the end, he decides to kill her nevertheless. This reminded me again of Silent Hill 2, too.

In the end, after Joe killed the last Sophie, he finds Ivy - dead. Now he's finally facing her death but still can't let it go. He carries her corpse to the basement to reanimate her. It doesn't work and while Joe is writhing in pain, he speaks to many "persons" he met before and the Queen who states that Joe is the sixth parasite (see The Cat Lady, Susan has to kill bad persons called as parasites). Before and while that happens, Susan from next door wakes up and begins to look for Joe. She finds both him and Ivy and thinks that Joe did that to her. She attacks him and now it depends on your behavior through the game, which ending you get.

That's how I interpreted the game (love it!!). I know I compare it a lot with Silent Hill 2 (btw one of my favorite games ever), but there are so many similarities that this can't be coincidence.

As for me, I didn't get the meaning of the Queen of the Maggots. Is she a God, the Devil, Death or maybe somehow everything all together? Looking forward to Rem's next game and I hope we see Susan and Joe once again (love them!) :pleased:

Damn i know this comment is pretty old but i just finished the game and needed some clearance about what exactly happened, very useful

[Heaven Smile]

Thank you, you’re welcome!

[Stigma]

"In the end, after Joe killed the last Sophie, he finds Ivy - dead. Now he's finally facing her death but still can't let it go. He carries her corpse to the basement to reanimate her. It doesn't work.."
Not exactly. That depends on the ending you get