Auto Skirmish -_-

[Farseer Frieren]

After all the amazingly good things I have to say about this game.... Why is online mode full of people who just spam ranged cavalry "auto skirmish".... Why is this even apart of the game?

Its extremely fun until you start playing competitively online and all cheap ranged cavalry can go into "automatic skirmish" and perfectly be timed out of harms way via computer assistance and not direct control.

I have not found a way to counter this... Kinda ruined the experience for me.

1500g elite lanced cavalry cannot beat 250g goblins on pigs.... -_-

This just feels so against what Total War games are to me, whyyyyy anyone know? XD

[Farseer Frieren]

Then they deserve to lose if they cannot micro manage well in a Total War game...

I have 0 issues with this in a single player mode. But online, ranked and competitive... (Uninstalls Warhammer)

I will be checking the new one to make sure this isnt a feature.

(I know I sound like a spoiled brat but I love competiive Total war, thats 90% the game for me.)

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Nåtilyi:

Then they deserve to lose if they cannot micro manage well in a Total War game...

I have 0 issues with this in a single player mode. But online, ranked and competitive... (Uninstalls Warhammer)

I will be checking the new one to make sure this isnt a feature.

(I know I sound like a spoiled brat but I love competiive Total war, thats 90% the game for me.)

Ignoring the fact that auto skirmish spam is something you almost never see in the first place, there's nothing wrong with auto-skirmish, it's stupidly predictable and can be exploited to herd enemy units into terrible positions. There's also the fact that most skirmish units are pretty terrible against anything with armor, the only ones that arent are stupidly slow+easily catcheable by skirmisher standards(outriders). The only reason to ever use auto-skirmish is if youre not good enough to keep track of your units, and the result is miserable skirmish results unless your opponent plays into your hands.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

Originally posted by Nåtilyi:

Historically, hard to use units.... pay off.

Erm.. "Historically" horse-archers were very difficult for European powers to deal with. You might have heard about these people known as the Huns.

Not being able to catch horse-archers with heavy cavalry is a point in the game's favor. I don't give a damn how "casual" you think it makes the game. Enter Rome/Medieval 2 where Skirmish-Mode would often see your highly valuable Sythian Mercenaries fleeing INTO the enemy general unit.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should bring BACK Rome's awful pathing?

-----

I'm drawing from in-general Total War experience here, but from what I know: Horse-Archers are countered by On-Foot Archers. On-Foot Archers tend to be cheaper, have more men per unit (Meaning you can have more of them in a single 20-stack) and have equatable fire-power per bow.

A unit of foot-archers protected by infantry and cavalry will typically win a missile trade with missile-cavalry, ESPECIALLY if they have the high ground.

[Lichlord9333]

That or the use of surten light cavalry like the greenskin wolf riders they can easily catch up with horse archers. They also carry shields meaning they are pretty good for it aswell.

[Farseer Frieren]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

Originally posted by Nåtilyi:

Historically, hard to use units.... pay off.

Erm.. "Historically" horse-archers were very difficult for European powers to deal with. You might have heard about these people known as the Huns.

Not being able to catch horse-archers with heavy cavalry is a point in the game's favor. I don't give a damn how "casual" you think it makes the game. Enter Rome/Medieval 2 where Skirmish-Mode would often see your highly valuable Sythian Mercenaries fleeing INTO the enemy general unit.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should bring BACK Rome's awful pathing?

-----

I'm drawing from in-general Total War experience here, but from what I know: Horse-Archers are countered by On-Foot Archers. On-Foot Archers tend to be cheaper, have more men per unit (Meaning you can have more of them in a single 20-stack) and have equatable fire-power per bow.

A unit of foot-archers protected by infantry and cavalry will typically win a missile trade with missile-cavalry, ESPECIALLY if they have the high ground.

I am saying Auto Skirmish should not be in ranked games... thats all man, relax... just got salty when some kid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ owned me with it.

[Boss]

This is juvenile. These comments. Might as well have auto-defend archers included. Or better yet, an option to turn on assisted AI in a RANKED COMPETITIVE SCENE, AmIRight?

Comments like these are ridiculous. The AI may be heardable, but doing so requires you to spend micromanaging effort - effort, mind you, the enemy isn't himself using with auto-skirmish. Why should you work twice as hard as the opponent to try and catch swift moving units? Is there to be an auto-chariot feature now? An auto-cycle-charge button?

As VC I've struggled against people that know what they're doing. While I can win as Brit frequently, VC is troubled by several annoying factors - skirmishers is one of them. The other is Luminarch single unit targeting, or archer spam. I remembered a game where I had to simply send vargheists in a constant cycle against his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ aired skirmishers or risk them stacking up to kill my hero or fire into the backs of my troops. He was able to shoot and move the entire time thanks to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Auto-skirmish and spare his attention entirely on the ground battle.

It's a stupid feature outside of campaign or casual matches. It should be a learning feature, a TRAINING feature. Not something you can just click and be done with. Something you're forgetting, here, is that any time he notices you're trying to bottle them up, he can just do a simple click+run away and let you waste two units or more chasing. Then return them to auto-skirmish the moment you give up.

Grow up. Skirmish spam/hero sniping is nonsense.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Space Dandy:

This is juvenile. These comments. Might as well have auto-defend archers included. Or better yet, an option to turn on assisted AI in a RANKED COMPETITIVE SCENE, AmIRight?

Comments like these are ridiculous. The AI may be heardable, but doing so requires you to spend micromanaging effort - effort, mind you, the enemy isn't himself using with auto-skirmish. Why should you work twice as hard as the opponent to try and catch swift moving units? Is there to be an auto-chariot feature now? An auto-cycle-charge button?

As VC I've struggled against people that know what they're doing. While I can win as Brit frequently, VC is troubled by several annoying factors - skirmishers is one of them. The other is Luminarch single unit targeting, or archer spam. I remembered a game where I had to simply send vargheists in a constant cycle against his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ aired skirmishers or risk them stacking up to kill my hero or fire into the backs of my troops. He was able to shoot and move the entire time thanks to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Auto-skirmish and spare his attention entirely on the ground battle.

It's a stupid feature outside of campaign or casual matches. It should be a learning feature, a TRAINING feature. Not something you can just click and be done with. Something you're forgetting, here, is that any time he notices you're trying to bottle them up, he can just do a simple click+run away and let you waste two units or more chasing. Then return them to auto-skirmish the moment you give up.

Grow up. Skirmish spam/hero sniping is nonsense.

Sounds like somebody is salty because they didnt see a luminark and yoloed into it with their lord. It's a 2200 point, niche investment that can be shut down by simply letting your army push in first. Or if you're on a fast mount you just see the visuals of the laser charging up on its 10 minute wind up time and take evasive maneuvers. Hero sniping is perfectly legitimate and is one of the many ways to win a game.

I can see your point that autoskirmish is a crutch, but have never found it to be a problem to deal with. That said, if you suspect enemy skirmish spam, dont bring skirmish susceptible units and you wont git rekked. Like I said before, the only skirmisher that actually does well vs armor is the horribly slow outrider. Everything else fails miserably.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

Originally posted by Space Dandy:

This is juvenile. These comments. Might as well have auto-defend archers included. Or better yet, an option to turn on assisted AI in a RANKED COMPETITIVE SCENE, AmIRight?

*snip*

Grow up. Skirmish spam/hero sniping is nonsense.

I got rather salty at Multiplayer Skirmish players when Sega did the GameSpy "Update" for Rome/Medieval2 that somehow introduced new bugs and destroyed mod compatibility, just for the sake of online multiplayer... For a decade old game.

But I got over that pretty quickly because that wasn't really your fault. That was just Sega being Sega.

Now here you are demanding the game be butchered and have entire features removed because it makes the game "too casual." It's almost as if you are TRYING to make me hate Skirmish players. And you're doing a good job.

[Farseer Frieren]

Originally posted by Space Dandy:

This is juvenile. These comments. Might as well have auto-defend archers included. Or better yet, an option to turn on assisted AI in a RANKED COMPETITIVE SCENE, AmIRight?

Comments like these are ridiculous. The AI may be heardable, but doing so requires you to spend micromanaging effort - effort, mind you, the enemy isn't himself using with auto-skirmish. Why should you work twice as hard as the opponent to try and catch swift moving units? Is there to be an auto-chariot feature now? An auto-cycle-charge button?

As VC I've struggled against people that know what they're doing. While I can win as Brit frequently, VC is troubled by several annoying factors - skirmishers is one of them. The other is Luminarch single unit targeting, or archer spam. I remembered a game where I had to simply send vargheists in a constant cycle against his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ aired skirmishers or risk them stacking up to kill my hero or fire into the backs of my troops. He was able to shoot and move the entire time thanks to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Auto-skirmish and spare his attention entirely on the ground battle.

It's a stupid feature outside of campaign or casual matches. It should be a learning feature, a TRAINING feature. Not something you can just click and be done with. Something you're forgetting, here, is that any time he notices you're trying to bottle them up, he can just do a simple click+run away and let you waste two units or more chasing. Then return them to auto-skirmish the moment you give up.

Grow up. Skirmish spam/hero sniping is nonsense.

Agreed thanks! its all this post is about... just venting really... I dont need to be mocked for a part of the game thats clearly a bit "♥♥♥♥♥♥" :(

[MrMurLock]

Did you have any hounds or better yet poison hounds to counter their skirmish cavalry?
Skirmishing chaos is a viable strategy since the majority of their units move so slowly. Part of the fun in multiplayer is countering your opponent's lineup.
It sounds to me that is why your opponent chose that army composition deliberately and you weren't able to counter it due to having too many chosen in your line instead of investing in a couple cheap dogs.

[Raviollius]

Originally posted by Space Dandy:

snip

Your complaints boil down to: "I'm using the faction that has no ranged and am angry that I can't catch the skirmishers". Well, unsurprisingly you're having issues with them when VC doesn't have the hardcounter! Retarded skirmisher spam(6+) aside, it is part of using that faction, like dwarves and their nonexistent mobility.

You can deal with the ground-bound ones somewhat with bats+direpack and raise dead casts to boggle 'em down. You can lead them into forests, so they take -80% speed penalty, and eat them there. Your lord can cast spells while moving, if they sent the skirmishers against your lord you fly back and cast raise dead behind you, once it's off and they are in the middle of the zombies you turn around and charge back.

Shooting is the action that causes the most fatigue in the game, so they tire quickly. You can abuse that by forcing the AI to move uphill or even better, move around/shoot inside a swamp to tire even faster. Extra points if you manage to tag them with poison, both to make them slower and to make them tire faster.

You shouldn't be expending too much attention to corner the skirmishers once you learn their patterns, especially because the enemy will be keeping track of where you attention is and what you described will happen. Get more experience vs. AI skirmishers in custom battles.

Flying skirmishers, I have no idea. I hear a flying-heavy lineup works.

@Luminark: you can dodge the shots as long as you don't get close enough to be net'd, bats/vargheist ruin the luminark and you can snipe their lord too with Spirit Leech.

[Farseer Frieren]

Can I be clear and point out it was 12 units of them.... 12 light cav archers... out of a budget that allowed about 20 units.

[Farseer Frieren]

I like playing chaos, the hounds were ok but very very succeptible to their arrows...

[Toby Larone]

12 horse archers don't kill alot of chosen since they have forgetable armor piercing damage

[Farseer Frieren]

Originally posted by the Spanish Inquisition:

12 horse archers don't kill alot of chosen since they have forgetable armor piercing damage

Are you guys ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded or something? NO but 8 units of black orcs kill chosen