Have the Vampire Counts always been idiots?

[cire87]

Im reading the End Times just finished second book starting on the third but so far the main vamps such as Manfred and Vlad have been near sighted idiots without vision. You would figure something that has lived for hundreds of years if not thousands would have and grander view.

Manfred helps summons Nagash and Vlad right before victory drinks the blood of a Rotting Chaos warriors WTF ?

[Urponaattori]

End Times... yeah screw them books...

[Ysthrall]

I don't actually know much about the vampire counts....

The first bunch of Vampires (the Lahmians) were pretty smart, and several of the other families ave varied from bestial cunning (Strigoi) to Chaos Lord (Blood Dragons).

As for the Von Carsteins, from what I can remember...
Vlad is a pretty smart cookie, maybe a bit too ambitious.
Isabella is not bad, but overly romantic.
Konrad IS an idiot, far too aggresive.
Manfred is probably the smartest of the bunch, and certainly the most patient.

Bear in mind that from what I've read of them, the End Times is GW shutting down their setting by having their named characters kill each other, themselves, and the world in general, as messily as possible, past characterisation be damned.

[EyeBags.On.Fleek]

If you want to enjoy warhammer, ignore the end times. GWs writing/lore development quickly went downhill towards the end of 6th/early 7th edition.

As a rule GW has always been good at providing a rich outline, but whenever it comes to more personalized narratives/specifics things go sour fast.

[Nick Naughty]

Don't worry I don't think 40k is any better either, any time soon I expect to hear about necron mechanical smurfs dancing around humming tunes.

[Dandy]

Most chaps that live to 100 years old will usually not have all their marbles left. Eyes, ears and muscles all go out the window and you end up in bed with the tv for company. For something that is a few centuries or maybe a few millennia old, these vampire guys are pretty lively (undead lively). Plus don't vampires go after all the virgin women in their domain? If so then I would imagine that would take some energy out of them.

[ArchaicReaper]

I'm no expert on the End Times but I know a decent enough amount to know that I have no idea what they wanted Mannfred to be doing. I've read the Vampire Wars trilogy and I don't believe the Mannfred I read wouldn't have joined Chaos to "secure his freedom" from Nagash. His thing was that he wanted to rule, so he orchestrated Vlad's demise and let his siblings bicker over succession while he left for Nehekhara to claim obscure lore on Necromancy from one of Nagash's Tomes, at which point he brought about Konrad's fall and took over as the leader of the Von Carsteins. Given that he was desperate enough to work with Arkhan the Black to return Nagash to the world to stop Chaos, his joining Chaos just felt like less than stellar writing to me.
So no, I don't think all Vampire Counts are idiots. Some are highly intelligent.

[Harukage]

Manfred wanted to hijack the ritual of Nagash's revival and absorb all the power. Only he was distracted in the right moment, so Nagash WAS revived and Manfred was forced to coply. That is until Nagash sold out Manfred to Tyrion nad Alariel as the person behind their daughters death as a special "thanks". Traitor is worth nothing after all, and traitor once is traitor for life. And then Manfred went full ♥♥♥♥♥♥...
As for Vlad, he had his trusty sword in his hands so the result was realy predictable. Touch the thing he fought with his hands would had the same result. Nurgle's filth is Nurgle's filth. And Vlad had his ring. The ring, so he basicaly has nothing to fear. That was a little spoiler...

[cire87]

I doesnt seem right that Vlad would stop after peircing Otto Glotkin with his sword to drink his blood. The dude was covered in boils and all manner of disease, he obviously worked for Nurgle.
Vlads force was winning , that writing made no sense ....

Maybe you could say he got cocky but really drinking the blood of a Servant of Nurgle is and always will be a bad idea >_<

[Harukage]

Blood drinker is absorbing blood it spills no matter what. The deeper the wound, the more blood it absorbs. That is the exact property of the sword.
It is more like Vlad was shocked from the whole amount of corrupted blood absorbed after piercing through the enemy rather then stoping to drink blood. I mean, the whole point of the sword is that it is a way for Vald to conquer his vampiric instincts, and still have a constant intake of blood. He will never stop to consumate on his dinner, it is beneath him.

[BrowneHawk]

i have read many of the books. yes the counts are idiots. Most of them are plauged with bad personality traits. They are technically "gets" of Von Carstein their father vampire. All the other vampires are gets of Carsteins sons. The smarter line of vampires are the lahmians. They are the ones with long term plans and know how to work the system.

[Harukage]

That is purely subjective. Do not mistake social adaptability with intelligence. In my eyes Neferata behaves like a stupid ♥♥♥♥♥ 99% of time, while her little ♥♥♥♥♥♥ are too often little else beyond that, and rather whimsy and disloyal.

[cire87]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Blood drinker is absorbing blood it spills no matter what. The deeper the wound, the more blood it absorbs. That is the exact property of the sword.
It is more like Vlad was shocked from the whole amount of corrupted blood absorbed after piercing through the enemy rather then stoping to drink blood. I mean, the whole point of the sword is that it is a way for Vald to conquer his vampiric instincts, and still have a constant intake of blood. He will never stop to consumate on his dinner, it is beneath him.

I might have to re-read that part but if not mistake it mentions his mouth and trying to spit up the putrid blood. Also right before that he destroyed the Leechlord with no problem and that character does nothing but make plagues and diseases so I would deem it safe to assume his blood is just as fcked.

[D Enhanced]

I have really done my best to avoid the End Times saga of Warhammer fantasy, it's depressing.

However, the older lore is filled with the Vampire Counts' many failures. Indeed, the majority of vampire bloodlines have been plagued with failure, usually due to their own hubris and lust for power.

The Vampire Counts repeatedly failed in their attempts to claim the throne of the Empire, though granted, often coming close.

The Strygoi built up an empire but were eventually undone due to an Orc Waaagh! whipped up by their expansion into orc lands and the scheming of Neferata.

Neferata herself has made plenty of questionable unlife choices. Her corruption of Lahmia and neglect of it's armed forces led to it's annihilation. Her desire of Alcadizaar, destroyed everything for her, and led directly to the first true downfall of Nagash.

Even Nagash himself, constantly hounded by his enormous ego, made countless mistakes that ultimately led to his numerous defeats.

As much as I worship the Undying King, Nagash and his ilk are doomed to failure by their very nature.

[Ultima Ratio Ecate II]

Originally posted by cire87:

Im reading the End Times just finished second book starting on the third but so far the main vamps such as Manfred and Vlad have been near sighted idiots without vision. You would figure something that has lived for hundreds of years if not thousands would have and grander view.

Manfred helps summons Nagash and Vlad right before victory drinks the blood of a Rotting Chaos warriors WTF ?

the answer is based on two points

1)the first is that even if they are smart and with knoledge derived from their long life vampire are cursed with a nature of constant struggle to dominate thers, especially other vampires. so eventually even if they are winning they are cursed to be betrayed by gelaus/envius vampires and condamned to failure much more than other races. an example is when manfred plotted to steal the ring of immortality to vald or its involvement in the fall of conrad.

2) we are speaking of end of times. so the main characters are nagash and chaos.
and GW always prefer chaos.
so in this setting they are condemend to be sidenotes of other characters and events and not protagonist themselves. and of course chaos win.

[cire87]

Last two responses pretty good ones.
BTW when you guys play a specific faction will you play out the lore or do whatever you deem best strategy/fun/evil/good etc.