Longbeards moral OP?

[Sir Harlz]

Was fighting dwarves in a co op campaign. Had them outnumbered a lot. Got into melee SURRONDED THEM with big uns. Apparently longbeards are unbreakable because they NEVER ROUTED and caused the big uns to route. We had a full circle around them and it NEVER touched their moral.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=718487301
NINE guys left and not even shaken.

This screenshot was taken at the end of the battle. DO not give me advice on "OH, YOU SHOULDEV MADE (list of units and tactics I shouldev used.) Because that has NOTHING to do with the topic. The dwarves were encircled and each unit had 20 men or less, most of them were still eager with one or two being steady. Personally that is just way too much moral for me. They didn't even have their Legendary moral buff because I modded out.

I get that Ironbeards are tough cookies and I would never expect to win against them with big uns. But a FULL surronded, not to mention the fact they were weak from arty and arrow fire. We killed 90% of their army but the other 10% didn't give a single ♥♥♥♥. Yet my army took 50% losses and started to waver and route.

[Saint Landwalker]

Such is the power of dorfs.

Additionally, Longbeards inspire nearby units. So (I think) multiple units of longbeards together just feed off each other for inspiration. They didn't get those beards that long by tripping over them running away.

[Jbrutal]

greenskins without lord tend to run away quick

[Sir Harlz]

Originally posted by Jbrutal:

greenskins without lord tend to run away quick

They had their lord for 95% of the battle. PLUS I was buffing them with spells constantly. The screenshot was taken at the end.

[Sir Harlz]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

Such is the power of dorfs.

Additionally, Longbeards inspire nearby units. So (I think) multiple units of longbeards together just feed off each other for inspiration. They didn't get those beards that long by tripping over them running away.

Longbeards are a good unit but not rare enougth to justify that kind of massive power. Ironbreakers I could understand. But longbeards are not very hard to get. Dwarf armires with large amounts of them appear pretty often.

[Reverend Belial]

That is literally the entire point of Longbeards and other elites. If they couldn't hold against Greenskins, the race would have died out LONG ago.

[Mr. Ape]

What difficulty are you playing on? Higher difficulties give the AI morale bonuses.

Originally posted by Profaned Sir Harlz:

Longbeards are a good unit but not rare enougth to justify that kind of massive power. Ironbreakers I could understand. But longbeards are not very hard to get. Dwarf armires with large amounts of them appear pretty often.

Well considering they lack cavalry and monster units, the Dwarves need something to excel at. A strong infantry line is essential to their playstyle. If their infantry are made to be on par with other faction's infantry, they would have lost their only means to protect their ranged units and their army would very underpowered. Even now, the Dwarfs are a weak multiplayer faction.

[Sir Harlz]

Originally posted by Reverend Belial:

That is literally the entire point of Longbeards and other elites. If they couldn't hold against Greenskins, the race would have died out LONG ago.

Originally posted by Mr. Ape #I.TOLD.U.SO:

What difficulty are you playing on? Higher difficulties give the AI morale bonuses.

Originally posted by Profaned Sir Harlz:

Longbeards are a good unit but not rare enougth to justify that kind of massive power. Ironbreakers I could understand. But longbeards are not very hard to get. Dwarf armires with large amounts of them appear pretty often.

Well considering they lack cavalry and monster units, the Dwarves need something to excel at. A strong infantry line is essential to their playstyle. If their infantry are made to be on par with other faction's infantry, they would have lost their only means to protect their ranged units and their army would very underpowered. Even now, the Dwarfs are a weak multiplayer faction.

They CAN hold against greenskins. IF I had attacked from the front I would expect them too hold them off and rip me apart. BUT THEY WERE SURRONDED AND DOWN TO 10% OF THEIR ARMY. There is a point where even the dwarven infantry have to route. The "dwarves are suppose to be tougth" thing isn't a excuse here. This is not dwarves having strong infantry. This is dwarves having infantry that will NEVER route AND have very good armor/melee attack. Meaning if you don't have an army of black orcs and gaints, don't bother.

Also yes they lack cav and monster units but they also get some of the most powerful ranged units and cav in the game. And the gyro bombers/copters. They don't need to have a unit that isn't even that hard to get or build in mass be unbreakable.

Dwarves rely on formation fighting. If their wall gets broken and they get surronded on all sides they tended not to do so well. Seeing as a orc big un is stronger and faster then a dwarf. So Reverend Belial I argree with you 100% but the problem is, the dwarves DIDN'T hold the line.

[Sir Harlz]

Originally posted by Mr. Ape #I.TOLD.U.SO:

What difficulty are you playing on? Higher difficulties give the AI morale bonuses.

Originally posted by Profaned Sir Harlz:

Longbeards are a good unit but not rare enougth to justify that kind of massive power. Ironbreakers I could understand. But longbeards are not very hard to get. Dwarf armires with large amounts of them appear pretty often.

Well considering they lack cavalry and monster units, the Dwarves need something to excel at. A strong infantry line is essential to their playstyle. If their infantry are made to be on par with other faction's infantry, they would have lost their only means to protect their ranged units and their army would very underpowered. Even now, the Dwarfs are a weak multiplayer faction.

Normal battle differculty. I like making the campaign AI hard but I don't like the AI getting battlefeild buffs.

[imasu]

The battle difficulty setting doesnt change the moral bonus they get from selecting a higher campaign setting for whatever reason. If you start a very hard etc campaign, then change the battle difficulty in options to normal or w/e, they will still have +10 moral or w/e it is. You'd have to use a mod to remove it.

The battlefield difficulty slider just effects hidden bonuses the AI gets to attack rate, accuracy etc afaik.

[Sir Harlz]

Originally posted by imasu:

The battle difficulty setting doesnt change the moral bonus they get from selecting a higher campaign setting for whatever reason. If you start a very hard etc campaign, then change the battle difficulty in options to normal or w/e, they will still have +10 moral or w/e it is. You'd have to use a mod to remove it.

The battlefield difficulty slider just effects hidden bonuses the AI gets to attack rate, accuracy etc afaik.

I did use a mod to remove it. They had no moral buff. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=693614705

Even if they did have a moral buff, they shouldn't have such high moral.

[Boink]

You need shock units damage dealers and disrupt their formation. Any hammer/anvil tactics with cavalry or dd just keep cycling them... black orcz is no match against longbeards. You can also use archers. Melee vs melee nothing beats melee defense of dwarves (except chaos).

[imasu]

Right on.

Yeah the first time I fought against back to back to back armies consisting of mostly zombies who never crumbled I removed the moral crap entirely. Cant say ive had enough experience fighting longbeards to really comment on them.

[Sir Harlz]

Originally posted by Boink:

You need shock units damage dealers and disrupt their formation. Any hammer/anvil tactics with cavalry or dd just keep cycling them... black orcz is no match against longbeards. You can also use archers. Melee vs melee nothing beats melee defense of dwarves (except chaos).

Thats the problem I DID DISRUPT THEIR FORMATION. They were surronded and spread out. But they didn't break, their moral never went bellow steady. ANd then they just slowly wore down my orcs.

We are not talking about if they are OP in terms of defence/offence. We are talking about their moral. Being surronded on all sides and taking massive losses should cause a lot more then "steady" on a unit that is not that hard to get.

[Boink]

Only thing I saw was 5 Black Orcz and 2 of them are running awayat the same direction.... and a black orc trying to get there but it is too late. Black Orcz are not known for break formation... unless I miss your legendary lord/boss somewhere?

I personally think you are fielding the wrong units against Dwarves. I only used Black Orcz at later on with the game when I'm dealing against Vampire and Chaos armies. I use cheap infantry to hold (guard position) the front, chain charge with cavalry (flank and behind). Then slowly getting poison units. Then dwarves start pooping green stuff then poof.

I play Legendary by the way so yeah I understand Looongbeards last long even surrounded.

[SQW]

Looks like a chain route effect. Unfortunate but Big Uns aren't that useful against armoured dwarfs. Sending a bunch of sub optimal orc units against Dwarf infantry is risking chain route. Orcs got poison, cav and that guided catapult. Use them instead.