To charge or not to charge?

[Leech's Share]

I've been wrestling with this dilemma all throughout the total war series: is it better to charge an enemy who is charging you or halt your troops so that they may “brace”? If so, are some units “better” at bracing than others? Here's an example comparing the nearly identical state swordsmen to spear men. Swordsmen have a higher charge bonus, so it would stand to reason (as they do not have pole-arms) a head-to-head charge would be more ideal than bracing. Likewise, spear men (aside from having pole-arms) have a lower charge bonus but a higher melee defense, so stopping and bracing in most situations would be preferable.

Or there's a third option: I'm just over-thinking this waaay too much.

[[EL] The Emperor of Mankind]

I am in the same position as you on this topic... I get so confused how to use my halberd line sometimes...

[Xenai]

That is actually a very good question, the game mentions 'bracing' in several locations but there's no actual information about it. My instinct tells me to think that counter-charging is always better, but that's mainly because they've removed the active unit abilities from previous games, where you would have abilities that specifically said they increased charge resistance, etc. But if there is some passive ability or stat that determines which course of action is better then I'd like to know about it too.

[Kaze]

If you're being charged by a similar unit, you can counter charge safely. If you're being charged by a larger or heavier unit, it is always better to brace.

[KWA ALLY]

I belive charge defence bonus only make your troops take less damage if charged (they still take damage and dont deal damage). This mean that if you fight melee units its always better to also charge.

When you fight cavalry however your men become in looser formation if they charge and lose mass. Then i believe its best to minimizing the enemy cavalry charge (a more powerfull than their own) by bracing.

However im not really sure.

[Big Boom Boom]

Halberd/Spearmen are better at bracing, Great weapon/cavalry better do charging to get that bonus, because their bracing isn't good enough.

[bionic ape]

There are circumstances where counter charging can be effective, but in general it's far less important than maintaining the integrity of your lines especially in evenly matched fights. Any time a unit has enemies on the side it suffers a morale penaly due to flanking so if you do counter charge with swordsmen it's important to walk your spearmen up to reinforce the swordsmen. It's almost always a losing proposition to make a frontal charge with spearmen even with the advantage of gravity.

[Aegis]

Dwarf IronBreakers, brace. Like everyone else said though depends on the units. tier 1 infantry vs tier 1 infantry charge. tier 1 spear vs tier 1 cav brace. Kinda just depends.

[Rodso]

counter charging looks way cooler

[Aegis]

Ironbreakers getting charged looks cooler....like a bunch of skeleton warriors just being moooooowed down.

[Senanima]

charge attack damage/defence is mostly a buff for around 30 seconds after a charge. infantry v/s infantry is charge counter all day long. Size/damage is consideration, but a weaker unit can hold until a flank or support arrives. Consider unit rank too.

Exceptions are calvary. You should always brace if your unit is being charged by them. (keep archers in skirmish mode, etc)

[Leech's Share]

Originally posted by EL The Emperor of Mankind:

I am in the same position as you on this topic... I get so confused how to use my halberd line sometimes...

See, this is the first total war game with such a wide variety of weapons. Axes, spears, swords, hammers, etc, that’s why I’ve been wondering this.

Originally posted by Kaze:

If you're being charged by a similar unit, you can counter charge safely. If you're being charged by a larger or heavier unit, it is always better to brace.

So non-spear infantry (like swords) being charged by trolls would be better off holding to brace rather than counter-charging?

Originally posted by Big Boom Boom:

Halberd/Spearmen are better at bracing, Great weapon/cavalry better do charging to get that bonus, because their bracing isn't good enough.

That seemed like the logical reasoning but nowhere does it say in black and white “you get this bonus if you hold your position”.

Anyway, thanks everyone for giving me some new perspectives on this.

[iScuZZ]

Bretonnian infantry resist charge from ALL units. Good stuff.

[Kaze]

Originally posted by Only Human:

Originally posted by Kaze:

If you're being charged by a similar unit, you can counter charge safely. If you're being charged by a larger or heavier unit, it is always better to brace.

So non-spear infantry (like swords) being charged by trolls would be better off holding to brace rather than counter-charging?

Yes, otherwise the momentum of both the sword unit and the trolls will make it more likely that they cut completely through the formation, when your goal is to stop them and surround them. Keep in mind you'll still have heavy losses, but if they cut through the formation, they will have the space to charge into you again. I do it all the time with my black Knights. If you keep the formation as tight as you can, you will be more likely to be able to stop them.

[Leech's Share]

Originally posted by Kaze:

Originally posted by Only Human:

So non-spear infantry (like swords) being charged by trolls would be better off holding to brace rather than counter-charging?

Yes, otherwise the momentum of both the sword unit and the trolls will make it more likely that they cut completely through the formation, when your goal is to stop them and surround them. Keep in mind you'll still have heavy losses, but if they cut through the formation, they will have the space to charge into you again. I do it all the time with my black Knights. If you keep the formation as tight as you can, you will be more likely to be able to stop them.

I use that strategy on heroes to lock them down but against monstrous units I didn't think that it made much of a difference. They seemed immune to being surrounded.

[Tekkss]

Quote here from a post on the TW reddit by a CA Dev:

Originally posted by Grace_CA:

Hey, this is from Al (not AI, AL)'s video I believe, and he just wanted to point out a few things I'll pass along:
“Thought I’d jump in here via Grace (thanks Grace!) and clarify the rules governing charges and their effects, as they’re rather context sensitive.
Essentially, the physical outcome of a charge (as in, guys getting knocked back, knocked down, knocked flying – or none of the above!) is governed by mass and velocity. Here’s a couple of examples at either end of the impact spectrum:
1) A unit of Demigryph Knights [Monstrous Cav, high mass, good speed] charges downhill [increasing velocity] into some counter-charging Goblins [Light Inf, very low mass]. This will result in a joyous spectacle of airborne goblins and deep unit-penetration; most likely a full breakthrough.
2) A unit of Empire Mounted Pistoliers [Light Cav, low mass] runs out of ammo, and you switch them to melee mode. They charge uphill [decreasing velocity] and hit a unit of bracing Halberdiers [Medium Inf, Charge Defence Against Large, bracing bonus to mass]. The Pistoliers cause minimal impact and get stopped at the gate. Worth adding that all units get a bracing bonus when static and facing the charger. The Charge Defence trait increases that bonus. Go Halberdiers!
As I said, extreme examples – I just didn’t want you to think the example in this video is going to happen in every cavalry charge. It’s all rather context sensitive :)
Regarding unit cycling – again, whether you should depends on the unit. Some cav are built for more prolonged combat, as they may be heavily-armoured and armed with swords (such as Demis). Others are geared for charging, and their most efficient damage output occurs on point-of-impact (such as lance-armed Black Riders for example). I’d always cycle the latter out for successive charges, as they just won’t put out the same damage over time in prolonged melee.”

- /u/Grace_CA (game dev)
Reddit post here.