Is it possible to beat Chaos as Vampire Counts?

[Archluden]

As you might guess, i'm really struggling to beat any battles against Chaos. Has anyone got an tips on unit rosters and how to match the insane quality and quantity of troops they have?

[Bubbles]

I can only beat them when i have 2 armies to their 1.

[JTL]

lots of spears. they are anti big and piercing. also group like 2 generals together when u fight them

[Treefrog]

Use the etheral armor piercing troops, the ghost thingys. It'll wreck 'em. TerrorGheists are great as well, for taking out large, and causing routs

[Searry]

You need to have a really really good economy for the upkeep to beat them, no massing of cheap troops will do it like with the Empire.

[Ray Rust]

I got lucky and managed to catch a few losely spread armies off gaurd. Took down 50% of his forces that way. (CHAOS can`t linger to close to one another or suffer attrition)

So just get them when they`re spread out. It`ll happen eventually.

Then clean up the rest with sheer manpower. I used an army consisting of tier 1 and 2.

[Archluden]

Originally posted by Bubbles.:

I can only beat them when i have 2 armies to their 1.

Originally posted by JTF:

lots of spears. they are anti big and piercing. also group like 2 generals together when u fight them

Originally posted by Tree-Frog:

Use the etheral armor piercing troops, the ghost thingys. It'll wreck 'em. TerrorGheists are great as well, for taking out large, and causing routs

Thanks guys, I think I will reformat my army to have better armour piercing capabilities.

Originally posted by Searry:

You need to have a really really good economy for the upkeep to beat them, no massing of cheap troops will do it like with the Empire.

Was a shock when I had to switch from fighting the Empire to Chaos haha. Really miss artillary to take out those Hellcannons.

Originally posted by Major Ray Hulkens:

I got lucky and managed to catch a few losely spread armies off gaurd. Took down 50% of his forces that way. (CHAOS can`t linger to close to one another or suffer attrition)

So just get them when they`re spread out. It`ll happen eventually.

Then clean up the rest with sheer manpower. I used an army consisting of tier 1 and 2.

Good idea, might be clever to let them spread thin so they are easier to destroy.

[Whassisface]

Originally posted by JTF:

lots of spears. they are anti big and piercing. also group like 2 generals together when u fight them

What about when playing as dwarves, I'm early campaign and don't think my dwarves use spears. Does this mean the usual dwarf troops are gonna get smashed?

[Brother PaciFist]

Originally posted by Whassisface:

Originally posted by JTF:

lots of spears. they are anti big and piercing. also group like 2 generals together when u fight them

What about when playing as dwarves, I'm early campaign and don't think my dwarves use spears. Does this mean the usual dwarf troops are gonna get smashed?

Cannons are good against big as dwarfs. Thunderers have armor piercing. Iron Breakers can hold the line, hammerers and slayers vs big are good at flanking hitting from behind.

[Storm]

of course it is...

[keputran69]

I can beat chaos as vampire on normal. Once i faced 2.5 chaos armies vs my 3 full stack armies and i won with one unit casualty (terrorgeist). Mind you their lords is archeon the everchosen, kholek suneater, and generic lord.
1st Army composition: 1 Legendary lord, 1 heroes, 4 grave guard, 4 black knight, 4 crypt horror, 4 vargeist, 2 vargulf.
2nd Army composition: 1 Lord, 1 Heroes, 4 cairnwraiths, 4 hexwraiths, 4 crypt horror, 4 vargeist, 2 terrorgeist.
3rd Army composition: 1 lord, 3 heroes, 4 cairnwraiths, 4 hexwraiths, 4 vargulf, 4 terrorgeist.
Army upkeep: about 20.000 dark magic and i have 7 provinces by the time i faced chaos.

[Eldritch]

I think I can share my experience with you, as recently in my campaign I had like 4 full stacks coming from the North down to Eastern Sylvania. I ran there with 3 armies, only one was full, the others were like 17 units each (including heroes). Their armies were led by Archaon, the Lord of Change, and two regular mid level lords. I had a lucky strike with my banshee as she successfully wounded the Lord of Change on the campaign map (don't ask me how a banshee can wound a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ greater demon), and after that the onslaught began. In one turn the fate of my campaign was decided.

First of all, 3 stacks, including Archaon, attack 2 of my armies, led respectfully by a low level Heinrich Kemmler and a lvl 18 kickass lord. I set up a defensive position and prepared to receive them. When the clash ensures, I realise I don't really have a way of dealing with their Hellcannons, and they cost me dearly. Nonetheless, I successfully redirect my Hexwraiths to destroy them, but the Chaos Knights, in numbers, destroyed them. I won't tell you the whole battle as I don't remember it very well but in the end I had an close defeat, with the death of my vampire lord and a great wreckage of both armies (had like 8 units left in his army, lost all my Black Knights), with Kemmler still alive with like a quarter in numbers of his troops. So of course after the defeat both of my armies scatter on the map, but Kemmler had the sense to run near my Mannfred army. This where it gets really good for me.

So on the same turn, after this epic battle, he send another 3 stacks at me, one full fresh army, and the remnants of two others. I proceed to hold my ground in a wood, and manage their assault fairly well, including their giant and Hellcannons, who came from the near side of my army, allowing me to send foot troops there after a few fights with their warriors. Overall, I won this battle. I lost a few units too but honestly, watching Archaon flee with my Terrorgheist after him was worth all of it.

After that I could counter attack and destroy the remnants of two stacks, making them flee towards the North again, allowing me to rebuild my armies and preparing myself for the attack of the Empire, who invited the Dwarfs, and two other dwarf factions to attack me a few turns earlier.

When speaking of roster, well I usually build my armies around 6-8 unit of Grave Guards, and 6 units of Grave Guards with Great Weapons. I replaced the skeleton warriors with only Grave Guards a lot time ago. I generally use around 3-4 units of basic Black Knights, and in both armies I had a unit of Hexwraiths and one of Cairn Wraiths. There were two units of Vargheists, and one of Crypt Horrors too. One of my armies had a Varghulf and the other a Terrorgheist that was really handy.

Against Chaos and their heavily armored troops, I recommend using a lot of armour-piercing like the Grave Guards with Great Weapons, to flank while your anvil (the regular Grave Guards) engage their front. To deal with the cavalry, well, it is difficult. Chaos Knights are really strong and they could manage two Black Knights and one Hexwraiths in a fight for really long before falling. Against their Chaos Spawns and Trolls, I sent the Crypt Horrors with a unit of Great Weapons to deal with them to hold them while my Terrorgheist was done with their giant. After that it was rather easy to finish them, but my Horrors paid the price in the end.

I strongly recommend using Dire Wolves or Fell Bats to deal with the Hellcannons early. I never use them because I think they're not strong enought but I wanted some at this battle. Against a giant, don't forget your magic ! Gaze of Nagash was enought to take half of his health back in a single shot. Having curses like Curse of Years is handy against their chosen, and never hesitate to use Danse Macabre of Vanhel on one of your charging units or one that is in a difficult situation. Can be useful to catch up cavalry too ! But in the end my Terrorgheist was the man of the situation. I dealt with several threats like the giants and the Chaos Spawns with a great efficiency. Even Archaon can tell you.

The difficulty of fighting Chaos is their strong leadership, I don't know if it's just me but I had a lot of trouble making them flee. Don't underestimate a unit of Chaos Knights, in a single charge they can screw up you fight if they flank.

Well it's a bit long but I hoped that helped. Really wanted to tell my epic battle story :p

[KWA ALLY]

Build walls, walls and even more walls.

[Archluden]

Originally posted by keputran69:

I can beat chaos as vampire on normal. Once i faced 2.5 chaos armies vs my 3 full stack armies and i won with one unit casualty (terrorgeist). Mind you their lords is archeon the everchosen, kholek suneater, and generic lord.
1st Army composition: 1 Legendary lord, 1 heroes, 4 grave guard, 4 black knight, 4 crypt horror, 4 vargeist, 2 vargulf.
2nd Army composition: 1 Lord, 1 Heroes, 4 cairnwraiths, 4 hexwraiths, 4 crypt horror, 4 vargeist, 2 terrorgeist.
3rd Army composition: 1 lord, 3 heroes, 4 cairnwraiths, 4 hexwraiths, 4 vargulf, 4 terrorgeist.
Army upkeep: about 20.000 dark magic and i have 7 provinces by the time i faced chaos.

Thanks! Appreciate the roster layout.

Originally posted by Exodeth:

I think I can share my experience with you, as recently in my campaign I had like 4 full stacks coming from the North down to Eastern Sylvania. I ran there with 3 armies, only one was full, the others were like 17 units each (including heroes). Their armies were led by Archaon, the Lord of Change, and two regular mid level lords. I had a lucky strike with my banshee as she successfully wounded the Lord of Change on the campaign map (don't ask me how a banshee can wound a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ greater demon), and after that the onslaught began. In one turn the fate of my campaign was decided.

First of all, 3 stacks, including Archaon, attack 2 of my armies, led respectfully by a low level Heinrich Kemmler and a lvl 18 kickass lord. I set up a defensive position and prepared to receive them. When the clash ensures, I realise I don't really have a way of dealing with their Hellcannons, and they cost me dearly. Nonetheless, I successfully redirect my Hexwraiths to destroy them, but the Chaos Knights, in numbers, destroyed them. I won't tell you the whole battle as I don't remember it very well but in the end I had an close defeat, with the death of my vampire lord and a great wreckage of both armies (had like 8 units left in his army, lost all my Black Knights), with Kemmler still alive with like a quarter in numbers of his troops. So of course after the defeat both of my armies scatter on the map, but Kemmler had the sense to run near my Mannfred army. This where it gets really good for me.

So on the same turn, after this epic battle, he send another 3 stacks at me, one full fresh army, and the remnants of two others. I proceed to hold my ground in a wood, and manage their assault fairly well, including their giant and Hellcannons, who came from the near side of my army, allowing me to send foot troops there after a few fights with their warriors. Overall, I won this battle. I lost a few units too but honestly, watching Archaon flee with my Terrorgheist after him was worth all of it.

After that I could counter attack and destroy the remnants of two stacks, making them flee towards the North again, allowing me to rebuild my armies and preparing myself for the attack of the Empire, who invited the Dwarfs, and two other dwarf factions to attack me a few turns earlier.

When speaking of roster, well I usually build my armies around 6-8 unit of Grave Guards, and 6 units of Grave Guards with Great Weapons. I replaced the skeleton warriors with only Grave Guards a lot time ago. I generally use around 3-4 units of basic Black Knights, and in both armies I had a unit of Hexwraiths and one of Cairn Wraiths. There were two units of Vargheists, and one of Crypt Horrors too. One of my armies had a Varghulf and the other a Terrorgheist that was really handy.

Against Chaos and their heavily armored troops, I recommend using a lot of armour-piercing like the Grave Guards with Great Weapons, to flank while your anvil (the regular Grave Guards) engage their front. To deal with the cavalry, well, it is difficult. Chaos Knights are really strong and they could manage two Black Knights and one Hexwraiths in a fight for really long before falling. Against their Chaos Spawns and Trolls, I sent the Crypt Horrors with a unit of Great Weapons to deal with them to hold them while my Terrorgheist was done with their giant. After that it was rather easy to finish them, but my Horrors paid the price in the end.

I strongly recommend using Dire Wolves or Fell Bats to deal with the Hellcannons early. I never use them because I think they're not strong enought but I wanted some at this battle. Against a giant, don't forget your magic ! Gaze of Nagash was enought to take half of his health back in a single shot. Having curses like Curse of Years is handy against their chosen, and never hesitate to use Danse Macabre of Vanhel on one of your charging units or one that is in a difficult situation. Can be useful to catch up cavalry too ! But in the end my Terrorgheist was the man of the situation. I dealt with several threats like the giants and the Chaos Spawns with a great efficiency. Even Archaon can tell you.

The difficulty of fighting Chaos is their strong leadership, I don't know if it's just me but I had a lot of trouble making them flee. Don't underestimate a unit of Chaos Knights, in a single charge they can screw up you fight if they flank.

Well it's a bit long but I hoped that helped. Really wanted to tell my epic battle story :p

Thanks a lot! I appreciate that! Some good tips there. Sounds like it was a good battle, worthy of some dwarven beer ;)

I think I now know how to structure my army and beat them.

[Eldritch]

Glad to help a fellow vampire lord ! To add to the story, 20 turns later and Archaon gets is arse handed to him by Mannfred. Proud of him !