Ask me lore questions

[Reverend Belial]

Alright, I guess it's about time that I updated this description.

This is a place for newcomers to the lore, or veterans looking to fact-check, to come and ask questions about the lore of Warhammer Fantasy.

FAQ:
Q: Is 40k and Fantasy the same universe?
A: No. 40k discussions go in this thread. http://steamcommunity.com/app/364360/discussions/0/333656722976215057/

Q: What is the End Times and why did it happen?
A: The End Times is the destruction of the Warhammer Fantasy setting, both in and out of universe. Chaos won the final confrontation and destroyed the world, beginning a new cycle and franchise. Out-of-universe this was done because Fantasy's models were costing Games Workshop more money than they were making them so they decided to scrap the setting entirely and reboot it as an 80's power metal album cover.

Disclaimers/Guidelines (I know that we're not supposed to back-seat moderate but sometimes it's necessary to keep things organized):
1. The most important thing; I AM NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. Do not take what I say as the gospel truth, I can forget and I can misread things just like everybody else. My knowledge of the Elves is also pretty shady. There are several regulars around who tend to fill in blanks or correct me if I'm wrong though, so you'll probably get your answer regardless.

2. Repeat questions are ok, so long as the question hasn't been asked on the same page or the one before it. I don't expect anybody to sift through 3000+ posts, but a light skim of the previous page won't kill anybody.

3. GW is extremely vague on many things, so sometimes there just simply isn't an answer to your question. They're also prone to retcons so sometimes what you think is the answer is no longer valid.

4. Try to avoid arguments. I know that sometimes they're unavoidable, but please don't deliberately antagonize anybody. Pretty basic.

5. Sit back, read, and enjoy.

6. No questions about CA's design decisions, or attempts to explain them. It's pointless, and just starts arguments and existential despair.

7. No using the word "strawman". It's a personal thing, it just grates on me.

8. No continuing the "Skaven don't exist" meme outside the context of the lore. I know it's fun sometimes, but it's old, tired, and just wants to rest. Plus it grates on other people.

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

Well I believe he disbanded the Cult of Khaine, likely because Khaine was dead. Ulthuan was sunk entirely though and Naggaroth was flooded in blood and Daemons. So they all moved into Athel Loren, called a council of every important person opposed to Chaos and then tried to stop the world from exploding. Which would have worked if not for that additional twist of stupid that made Mannfred kill Gelt, causing Teclis to melt and leaving no one able to stop the Chaos Rift from consuming the world.
Before the end he also married the Everqueen and then pushed her out of the way from falling rocks, causing himself to be trapped under the rubble shortly before the world was destroyed.

...So Malekith became a "good" guy again now that he is Pheonix King?

Kind of? He did pass through the Flames, so I imagine it changed him like it's supposed to. Making him what he could have been had he not been cursed and corrupted his whole damn life.

Originally posted by New Willinium:

So speaking of the whole Malekith problem I've been hearing about with him becoming the King of the united Elves I have to ask how it happened. The only realistic way I can imagine it happening is if Malekith slew the previous King if the High Elves before stepping into the Phoenix Flames and somehow either coming out unscaved or restored from it, having done this in front of High Elven Lords as an unwilling audience. Forcing them to submit due to tradition.

Not quite, but almost. Basically it was found out, by Teclis no less, that Malekith was the rightful heir to the throne all along and every Phoenix King from Bel Shanaar to Finubar were usurpers and were being driven slowly insane. Finubar, hearing this, committed some kind of ritual suicide when a Bloodletter was summoned in his room and allowed it to kill him. I'm hazy on exactly how it got there. So word got out, people kind of freaked out, obviously, and many were resolute to not bow to their enemy, but then some Dark Elves split off under Morathi who had seduced Tyrion who had drawn the Sword of Khaine and got possessed by Khaine. So now there's a crazy new civil war going and, eventually, Malekith wins with a goodly portion of help (Alith Anar the Shadow King killed Tyrion in their last of 3 duels between Tyrion/Khaine and Malekith and Malekith passes through the Flame of Asuryan and becomes the Eternity King. He then marries the Everqueen and Teclis unbinds the Vortex to give out the Winds of magic to make the Incarnates. Teclis then passes the Wind of Light from himself to Tyrion to revive him and Malekith gets the Wind of Shadow by mistake instead of Fire. Then Ulthuan sinks and they all teleport to Athel Loren.
The order of some things might be mixed up but that's the gist of it.

[Spinz]

Originally posted by New Willinium:

So speaking of the whole Malekith problem I've been hearing about with him becoming the King of the united Elves I have to ask how it happened. The only realistic way I can imagine it happening is if Malekith slew the previous King if the High Elves before stepping into the Phoenix Flames and somehow either coming out unscaved or restored from it, having done this in front of High Elven Lords as an unwilling audience. Forcing them to submit due to tradition.

Kind of. Finubar had died at some point, which left the High Elves mostly looking to Tyrion as their new leader. Tyrion ends up drawing the Sword of Khaine, and is transformed into the Avatar of Khaine. He goes pretty crazy with bloodshed, and all that. Tecles see this, and gets a decent number of Elves to defect to Malekith.

At this point I can't remember the exact order of events. Anyways, Naggaroth is destroyed by Chaos, Malekith walks back into the Fires and comes out the true Phoenix King (becuase he only needed to stay a few more moments in the Fire to begin with), Ulthuan sinks, and the remainder of the Elves travel to Athel Loren (through various means, mostly worldroots), Orion ends up dieing, and after a bunch more shenanigans Ariel gts married to Malekith in order to unite all the Elves.

[Argronok0]

Originally posted by Reverend Belial:

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

What the f#ck?!

Oh by 8th edition they try to remove any relationship with Chaos and the Dark Elves, what with Morathi not being a Follower of Slaanesh anymore.

Than they pull this bullsh!t with Malekith suddenly capable of calling the aid of Bloodthirsters?!

And jeez the look on Finubar's face when he wakes up and a f#cking Bloodthirster of Khorne is in front of his face.

From what I understand Finubar just kinda sighed and let it happen. Frankly he was worthless anyway so I'm not too bothered by that.

Like I said I have no idea how the hell Malekith did that, but it's not a normal part of his magical repertoire.

Also correction it was a Bloodletter, but still what the f3ck?

[Argronok0]

I now think I can piece together how and why Malekith can summon Bloodletters.

Did him doing that to Finubar happened AFTER the Chaos invasion of Naggaroth lead by Valkia and Skarbrand?

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

I now think I can piece together how and why Malekith can summon Bloodletters.

Did him doing that to Finubar happened AFTER the Chaos invasion of Naggaroth lead by Valkia and Skarbrand?

I believe so. Wiki says it was after Daemonic incursions ravaged Ulthuan, so I assume Naggaroth suffered the same fate, but likely worse. I'll just paste it.

"Between 2520 and 2523 IC massive daemonic incursions ravaged Ulthuan. The Phoenix King secluded himself in his tower and refused to lead the defense. There he came to the revelation that he and all the Phoenix Kings were cursed by Asuryan for being impostors who cheated their way through the flames via magical protection. Malekith projects his spirit form into Finubar's observatory and taunts him about everything that has come to pass. He then summoned a Bloodletter and locked Finubar in the room, and Finubar let the Bloodletter kill him as he saw suicide as the only option. Until 2524 the corpse of Finubar is not discovered. After that Tyrion was appointed Regent of Ulthuan. He was due to enter the flames and become the Phoenix King in a year's time."

[Argronok0]

And I also jsut found out that it was the END TIMES that retconned Morathi being a follower of Slaanesh?! Not prior to it?

Oh my goodness this inconsistancy of what they want for the Dark Elves is just baffling.

[Argronok0]

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

I now think I can piece together how and why Malekith can summon Bloodletters.

Did him doing that to Finubar happened AFTER the Chaos invasion of Naggaroth lead by Valkia and Skarbrand?

I believe so. Wiki says it was after Daemonic incursions ravaged Ulthuan, so I assume Naggaroth suffered the same fate, but likely worse. I'll just paste it.

"Between 2520 and 2523 IC massive daemonic incursions ravaged Ulthuan. The Phoenix King secluded himself in his tower and refused to lead the defense. There he came to the revelation that he and all the Phoenix Kings were cursed by Asuryan for being impostors who cheated their way through the flames via magical protection. Malekith projects his spirit form into Finubar's observatory and taunts him about everything that has come to pass. He then summoned a Bloodletter and locked Finubar in the room, and Finubar let the Bloodletter kill him as he saw suicide as the only option. Until 2524 the corpse of Finubar is not discovered. After that Tyrion was appointed Regent of Ulthuan. He was due to enter the flames and become the Phoenix King in a year's time."

I am guessing they forgot to add this piece of fluff, but here's my theory.

Malekith in the End Times killed Skarbrand, and pushed back the Khorne Chaos Warriors.

Somehow Khorne was...impressed by this and offered Malekith whatever he wants.

That is the only logical explination as to why Malekith can suddenly call the aid of Bloodletters.

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

I believe so. Wiki says it was after Daemonic incursions ravaged Ulthuan, so I assume Naggaroth suffered the same fate, but likely worse. I'll just paste it.

"Between 2520 and 2523 IC massive daemonic incursions ravaged Ulthuan. The Phoenix King secluded himself in his tower and refused to lead the defense. There he came to the revelation that he and all the Phoenix Kings were cursed by Asuryan for being impostors who cheated their way through the flames via magical protection. Malekith projects his spirit form into Finubar's observatory and taunts him about everything that has come to pass. He then summoned a Bloodletter and locked Finubar in the room, and Finubar let the Bloodletter kill him as he saw suicide as the only option. Until 2524 the corpse of Finubar is not discovered. After that Tyrion was appointed Regent of Ulthuan. He was due to enter the flames and become the Phoenix King in a year's time."

I am guessing they forgot to add this piece of fluff, but here's my theory.

Malekith in the End Times killed Skarbrand, and pushed back the Khorne Chaos Warriors.

Somehow Khorne was...impressed by this and offered Malekith whatever he wants.

That is the only logical explination as to why Malekith can suddenly call the aid of Bloodletters.

I'm thinking it's more he tore a small hole to Chaos and a Bloodletter got through or he used Dark Magic to weaken the defenses to let one through. You actually don't need much special to summon Daemons, especially if they WANT to be summoned. Even more so if you don't care about binding them. With basically the world under Daemon invasion, I don't imagine it to be that hard to summon one.

[A6M Zero]

I think we can all agree that GW pulled some retarded nonsense to force the stupid idea of Malekith being the true king, and that trying to rationalise something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is futile. As I have said before it would be like the US electing Osama Bin Laden as president, if Bin Laden had been murdering, raping and enslaving people since 4000 BC.

[Argronok0]

Thorgrim killed Queek Headtaker by snaping Queek's neck with one hand according to 1d4 chan.

What I want to know is what happened that resulted in that?

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by A6M Zero:

I think we can all agree that GW pulled some retarded nonsense to force the stupid idea of Malekith being the true king, and that trying to rationalise something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is futile. As I have said before it would be like the US electing Osama Bin Laden as president, if Bin Laden had been murdering, raping and enslaving people since 4000 BC.

I'd say it's more like Benedict Arnold or Robert E. Lee. They have to have been a hero at one point before turning into the enemy. Though trying to make any historical comparison with this will always be flawed.

[Argronok0]

Local Vampire Ruins Everything:

https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1465/42/1465429628025.png

[New Willinium]

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

Local Vampire Ruins Everything:

https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1465/42/1465429628025.png

You know what I find most irritating about that? Mannfred was going down to HELP the incarnates bind the winds and then changed his mind for no bloody ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason half way there and did THAT to Gelt.

[Jakal, Lady kisser]

Originally posted by New Willinium:

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

Local Vampire Ruins Everything:

https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1465/42/1465429628025.png

You know what I find most irritating about that? Mannfred was going down to HELP the incarnates bind the winds and then changed his mind for no bloody ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason half way there and did THAT to Gelt.

the sad irony here is that mannfred forgetting his own plans halfway along, then randomly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ things up for everyone involved including himself assuming ti will somehow go brilliantly for him is probably the single most in-character thing of the end times.

[Reverend Belial]

Originally posted by Lord Bear:

Thorgrim killed Queek Headtaker by snaping Queek's neck with one hand according to 1d4 chan.

What I want to know is what happened that resulted in that?

It was Sniktch who got his neck snapped, and it was Ungrim who did it after the Deathmaster assassinated Thorgrim literally three feet away from him.