Anyone using Goblin Wolf Rider Archers?

[Sovietkotek]

Love the Goblin Wolf Riders, with the commander's buffs to cavalry and Sneaky Stabbin, they pack quite a punch both in charge and the ensuing melee, not to mention their low cost.

But the arrer dogboyz are a little harder to justify. They're more expensive too. I've had some success when I can get behind much quicker and shoot enemies in the back, but in that case just smashing into them from behind does plenty anyway. I have used them for skirmishing, tho, their parthian shot is still pretty good.

[Saint Landwalker]

In a hypothetical world where I played Greenskins (have finished a Dwarf campaign and am nearing the end of an Empire game), and where I used missile cavalry in general (number of pistoleers / outriders I've recruited as Empire: Zero), I would probably use Goblin Wolf Rider Archers as one of two things:

1) Anti-archer units against lightly-armored enemy missile infantry. They can shoot enemy goblin archers or imperial crossbowmen and their ilk if they try skirmishing away, then rough 'em up in melee once they catch them.

2) Anti-cavalry harassment. One of my most common struggles is responding effectively to enemy flanking cavalry, so missile cavalry seems like it would be an effective "stalling" mechanism to slow down or distract enemy cavalry while my infantry or shock cavalry make sure they're properly positioned.

[Panfilo]

I like the spider archers better. They have poison and make a good support skirmisher that makes dangerous units more manageable for your line troops to handle.

[BigBadB]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

In a hypothetical world where I played Greenskins (have finished a Dwarf campaign and am nearing the end of an Empire game), and where I used missile cavalry in general (number of pistoleers / outriders I've recruited as Empire: Zero), I would probably use Goblin Wolf Rider Archers as one of two things:

1) Anti-archer units against lightly-armored enemy missile infantry. They can shoot enemy goblin archers or imperial crossbowmen and their ilk if they try skirmishing away, then rough 'em up in melee once they catch them.

2) Anti-cavalry harassment. One of my most common struggles is responding effectively to enemy flanking cavalry, so missile cavalry seems like it would be an effective "stalling" mechanism to slow down or distract enemy cavalry while my infantry or shock cavalry make sure they're properly positioned.

I wouldn't try 1 too much - for most races, missile infantry is the best counter to missile cav (longer range, greater volume of fire).

2 is one of the things I find them handy for, but you need time to micro them - leaving them to the 'skirmish mode' AI tends to end badly unless the opposing cav is very slow.

[Gom]

By circling around shooting arrows alone gives -9 leadership, -5 from being shot and -4 from having a faster unit around (even though if it's just a wimpy goblin on a doge throwing chopsticks).

I guess 1AP dmg can add up if targeting high value slow targets like chosen great weapon.

Or as for Pistoliers you can use metal wizard's -30 armor spell on 30 armor infantry etc.

[Sovietkotek]

Micro-ing them does indeed make them extremely effective. Useful for leading enemy cav on a wild goose chase. Another plus is attacking enemy missile infantry who are close to infantry, making a direct attack more risky; I find that constantly circling them causes their missile infantry to keep turning on their footprint, and never actually shoot very much.

Spider riders with their poison attacks and stats are indeed superior in every way. However, I can't resist the allure of that juicy speed. Especially with the Riderz perk from the commander, even dog boyz can very quickly surround and cut down opposing cavalry, albeit with at least 3 units to the one enemy unit + Sneaky Stabbin.

All in all, I still can't really justify the Wolf Rider Archers for the extra cost and upkeep, simply smashing into the enemy rear seems to do the job far better.

[Saint Landwalker]

Originally posted by BigBadB:

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

In a hypothetical world where I played Greenskins (have finished a Dwarf campaign and am nearing the end of an Empire game), and where I used missile cavalry in general (number of pistoleers / outriders I've recruited as Empire: Zero), I would probably use Goblin Wolf Rider Archers as one of two things:

1) Anti-archer units against lightly-armored enemy missile infantry. They can shoot enemy goblin archers or imperial crossbowmen and their ilk if they try skirmishing away, then rough 'em up in melee once they catch them.

2) Anti-cavalry harassment. One of my most common struggles is responding effectively to enemy flanking cavalry, so missile cavalry seems like it would be an effective "stalling" mechanism to slow down or distract enemy cavalry while my infantry or shock cavalry make sure they're properly positioned.

I wouldn't try 1 too much - for most races, missile infantry is the best counter to missile cav (longer range, greater volume of fire).

2 is one of the things I find them handy for, but you need time to micro them - leaving them to the 'skirmish mode' AI tends to end badly unless the opposing cav is very slow.

What I meant by #1 isn't "get into a shootout with missile infantry", because you will lose your pants if you do that. I meant using them to charge missile infantry, since they can get in some shots while they close the charge. Dear Sigmar, no, do not use missile cavalry to try to out-shoot missile infantry.

[BigBadB]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

Originally posted by BigBadB:

I wouldn't try 1 too much - for most races, missile infantry is the best counter to missile cav (longer range, greater volume of fire).

2 is one of the things I find them handy for, but you need time to micro them - leaving them to the 'skirmish mode' AI tends to end badly unless the opposing cav is very slow.

What I meant by #1 isn't "get into a shootout with missile infantry", because you will lose your pants if you do that. I meant using them to charge missile infantry, since they can get in some shots while they close the charge. Dear Sigmar, no, do not use missile cavalry to try to out-shoot missile infantry.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.

[Sovietkotek]

Originally posted by Landwalker04:

using them to charge missile infantry, since they can get in some shots while they close the charge

Aye, I do that too. But that role seems a waste of extra teef when the regular dog boyz do that and better for cheaper.

The ability to fire on the move and move very quickly certainly have their uses; shooting into the flanks or rear of elite heavier units, thus ignoring some of their armor I assume, usually does them in reasonably well when regular Wolf Riderz would start losing even with the charge directly into the rear + Sneaky Stabbin.

[Saint Landwalker]

Yeah, given the morale effects of shooting into somebody's back, I would imagine goblin wolf rider archers (and spider archers) would be great for riding around back of the enemy infantry line and just wrecking their leadership, even if they don't accomplish much in the way of actual damage.

[Sovietkotek]

Their damage does add up, I'm sure. Even with their basic 16 damage, shooting into the rear whittles the enemy down pretty damn fast, but then again I was using 5 units. Of course, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Dwarfs don't count, waddling around with 12 feet of plate.

Then, charging down the routing enemy gives them a slight plus, possibly the most important perk, theoretically being able to actively engage without taking as many casualties, allowing them to be used better in follow up battles. With regular Wolf Riderz, they usually lose a chunk engaging in melee even from the rear unless I really do them in quick.