Greenskins vs Warcraft Orcs/M.E Orcs/Orsimers

[Daryl]

Who do you think is stronger and deadlier in combat
if you face these armies off against eachother

[The Coolest Cat]

Originally posted by Rhinopotamus:

Well you're totall missing a lot. Warcraft Orcs have a lot more magic, the Horde has Ogres, a much larger race that would go toe-to-toe with trolls, and not run away, who also have powerful magic wielders, clefthooves (gaint furry rhino like creatures that are as big as an Arachnarok, and later replaced by the Kodo), also Warcraft Orcs are larger, and have much more XP than most greenskinz as they are bred for war, and spend their entire lives living for it. Greenskinz do as well, but not having a childhood to be raised into war, makes you much less advantaged than someone who is, and this attributes to Warcraft Orcs having higher moral or "leadership".

Also let's get this straight people Grom Hellscream would straight murder Grimgore, and I love Grimgore, he is a bad dude, and seriously awesome. However, Grom one shotted Mannoroth, a magic wielding King of the Pit-Lords, bigger than Kholek Suneater, not once, but twice. He single handedly killed an Ogre, after being starved into malnurishment... and then ate him. He is the only Orc in Warcraft history to drive fear into the Ogre Empire. Aswell I think Grimgore's fair Warcraft Equivelent is Blackhand, he is a lot of raw power and destructive force, but he is fairly easily manipulated (Wurrzag/Gul'dan). As well we have to ask ourselves which Warcraft Orc force are we comparing to the Greenskinz, the Old Horde? The Somewhat Middle Horde? The little later Horde? or Thrall's New Horde? All of them still beat Greenskinz, but it just gets worse for them as time goes on. Start adding in more ogres, more magic, trolls, tauren, forsaken, blood elves, warcraft goblins, half-ogres, and the list continues.

Also for a note I think the fair comparison to Azhag is Kargath Bladefist, and I think in Melee it would be a super sweet fight.

This man speaks sense. I also think Blackhand is a good Warcraft comparison to Grimgor. Don't forget the part were Grom killed a demi-god, though! That's the crown on top the cake of glory.

There might not be enough Orcs to match Greenskins in number but the magic the Orcs have is devastating, their numbers are veterans, and they can just keep being resurrected over and over again.

It's no comparison, Greenskins skills, abilities and numbers are all nothing compared to the Orcs.

[Dana Zanerman]

Wait,how is Mannoroth bigger than Kholek ?
Kholek is described as able to look up over a cities wall without even trying.
He was literally a mountain.

Also,wasn't this an orc vs orc thread ? Why did we start to count blood elves and stuff into this

[The Coolest Cat]

Originally posted by Erman Kan:

Wait,how is Mannoroth bigger than Kholek ?
Kholek is described as able to look up over a cities wall without even trying.
He was literally a mountain.

Also,wasn't this an orc vs orc thread ? Why did we start to count blood elves and stuff into this

http://i.imgur.com/hy3Fi53.png

This guy was a runt of a pit lord compared to Mannoroth, and this guy would have been pretty big with his bottom half.

[Dana Zanerman]

Originally posted by Ry-chu:

Originally posted by Erman Kan:

Wait,how is Mannoroth bigger than Kholek ?
Kholek is described as able to look up over a cities wall without even trying.
He was literally a mountain.

Also,wasn't this an orc vs orc thread ? Why did we start to count blood elves and stuff into this

http://i.imgur.com/hy3Fi53.png

This guy was a runt of a pit lord compared to Mannoroth, and this guy would have been pretty big with his bottom half.

Warlords of Draenor Cinematic completely disproves your point.
Grom is almost as big as his arm

[astemix]

Originally posted by Ry-chu:

Originally posted by Erman Kan:

Wait,how is Mannoroth bigger than Kholek ?
Kholek is described as able to look up over a cities wall without even trying.
He was literally a mountain.

Also,wasn't this an orc vs orc thread ? Why did we start to count blood elves and stuff into this

http://i.imgur.com/hy3Fi53.png

This guy was a runt of a pit lord compared to Mannoroth, and this guy would have been pretty big with his bottom half.

I do love the one you share is the biggest remains of a pit lord in warcraft with the least lore compared to anything.

Aggonar was a pit lord who resided in Outland. When he died, his demonic essence was left behind to corrupt sacred draenei pools into what are now known as Pools of Aggonar. An altar named Altar of Aggonar is also located in these pools. His bones are all that remain, and the demonic eredar Arazzius the Cruel — master of the Burning Legion in Hellfire Peninsula — resides within them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luuUE0x7-TY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTdBqTm9zU

and notice second time was not a oneshot scenario. But he is not as large as Aggonar in any of these shots.
First time is not really a one shot either since Chris Metzen love child thrall did hit him first. he have been called green jesus in wow because cataclysm.

[SwaguinorB]

Originally posted by Daryl:

Originally posted by EL The Emperor of Mankind:

Its no contest in all honesty... Warhammer is based entirely around war, and Greenskins are a species of fungus built to just destroy things...

What if they face the Orsimer of Tamriel
or the Orcs of Warcraft

which Orcish race would be best?

theyre part of the elves too.

[SnugglyPuffs]

Originally posted by Ry-chu:

Originally posted by Erman Kan:

Wait,how is Mannoroth bigger than Kholek ?
Kholek is described as able to look up over a cities wall without even trying.
He was literally a mountain.

Also,wasn't this an orc vs orc thread ? Why did we start to count blood elves and stuff into this

http://i.imgur.com/hy3Fi53.png

This guy was a runt of a pit lord compared to Mannoroth, and this guy would have been pretty big with his bottom half.

Everything in WoW is an abstract. Everything from Humans, Gnomes, to Orcs and Demons get DRAMATICALLY larger based on their status relative to their equally levelled peers. Hoards of elite mobs and bosses of all types are arbitrarily huge even when they have no lore based reason to be super giants or they belong to a race that doesn't magically increase in size with age or strength.

You keep taking MMO features out of context and using them to apply a power/size scale to Warcraft lore and that's not accurate or sensible.
Groups of unknown player heroes are responsible for the deaths of bosses, not individuals, and in most cases the bulk of the work is attributed to non-players.
The MMO is full of oxymorons due to the mechanical and restrictive nature of the levelling system.
An Ogre warlord should be drastically more potent in combat than a tiny cervine mammal, and yet a small deer in a slightly higher level zone will stomp arbitrarily. There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of mundane trash mobs that have no business at all being orders of magnitude more powerful than slightly lower level characters and creatures who are by lore standards quite formidable; but they exist.
A deer in a beginner area is literally nothing, a carbon copy of that deer in any end zone from any expansion is a solo city and mortal army stomping nightmare.

[TheGrungiOne]

Greenskins Pros:
-Love war and are made for it.
-High morale where there is a fight.
-Black orcs have better armor and have a more indepth knoweldge of weaapons. (Not shown in this game but they are well trained in great weapons, sword and shield, and dual wielding.)
-Choppas (In the lore most other races cannot properly use a choppa due to its immense weight and awkward handling even with two hands this has not been the case in warcraft lore so it stands to reason that the greenskins would be slightly stronger.)
-Replenishment, Greenskins are fully mature after a 4-9 month gestation period. Also when killed their body releases millions of spores.
-They use a type of magic referred to as "the great green" which is a magic naturally produced from other greenskins.
-Greenskin magic has a much grander scale for the common spell caster.
-What they believe is true becomes true. Many people point out that this is far more prelevent in 40k and it is. However it does have a basis for the savage orc warpaint stopping a killing blow as if they had armor.
-Sheer number of the orcs.
-Trolls
-Giants
-Snotling mobs (Imagine a hundred tiny greenskins that belong to the don't give a ♥♥♥♥ club swarm you and tear you apart with teeth, claws, and small pointy objects.)
-Arachnaroks
-Spider calvary (can easily climb walls and the giant spiders are numerous.)
-Simplistic cleverness (This one is odd, but it is true. Take for example a night goblin warboss once drugged up a bunch of squigs and gifted them to the skaven they were at war with as a token of peace. A few hours later when the drugs wore off the goblins simply followed the sounds of battle to find the skaven hiding places.)
-Wyverns
-Few-No non-fighting forces.

Cons:
-Cowardly goblins
-In fighting
-Largely stupid


Warcraft Pros:
-More Spell casters
-Are a (mostly) united faction
-Have healers
-They have a form of leadership in place
-Wyvern riders. (granted they are small and no excuse for a wyvern but these mamals are plentiful and give the warcraft orcs a bit of an ariel advantage.)

Cons:
-Their magic is weaker in comparison to the greenskins.
-Each caster has a limited pool of casting (mana) compared to the greenskins.
-There are non fighting forces in the horde.
-The amount of time it takes to replenish their lost fighter. (unlike the Greenskins the warcraft orcs are mamalian and go through an adolescent development stage.)

Lotr orcs Pros:
-Have a similar birthing method to greenskins and can replenish quickly.
-Olag-hai
-Trolls
-Wargs (intelligent mounts and natural carnivores give them a bit of an edge for this.)
-In depth knowledge of poisons.
-Great tunnelers, easy for these creatures to carve out a stronghold from mountains.
-Can have good tactics such as the uruk-hai of the white hand.
-Large numbers.
-Few-No non-fighting forces.

Cons:
-Very cowardly, they need a fearsome leader for them to go out into a fight.
-Bad track records. (Often the victories of the orcs are back with Morgoth.)
-Infighting.
-Lack of magic.

Orsimir Pros:
-Able to make the best weapons and Armor in Tamriel. (That is what they are known for.)
-Often make some of the best heavy fighters.
-Have repeled numerous invasions but more flexible and more experienced armies and kingdoms.

Cons:
-Small in number.
-Infantry focused. (where as the others do have some form of calvary and monostrous infantry.)
-Lack of magic.


Hope this helps. I focused on the main points of each orc race mentioned in the thread. The short of it is simply that the greenskins have more lore. Now with warcraft orcs idk what time period we are talking about so I went with current WoW horde orc faction. Same with Lotr, are we talking the time of Morgoth of during the ring saga? I went with the ring saga. Now the Orsimir I love, a little awkward because I also love the bretons and they were the ones they have beaten back. The simple truth with the Orsimir is that we don't know much about them. So I took what is known from the elder scrolls but not the elder scrolls online because idk how lore friendly that is and in honesty it would change very little.

Can't wait for the inevitable "You don't know what you're talking about." post. ;)

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by Honved_Andras:

Greenskins Pros:
-Love war and are made for it.
-High morale where there is a fight.
-Black orcs have better armor and have a more indepth knoweldge of weaapons. (Not shown in this game but they are well trained in great weapons, sword and shield, and dual wielding.)
-Choppas (In the lore most other races cannot properly use a choppa due to its immense weight and awkward handling even with two hands this has not been the case in warcraft lore so it stands to reason that the greenskins would be slightly stronger.)
-Replenishment, Greenskins are fully mature after a 4-9 month gestation period. Also when killed their body releases millions of spores.
-They use a type of magic referred to as "the great green" which is a magic naturally produced from other greenskins.
-Greenskin magic has a much grander scale for the common spell caster.
-What they belief is true becomes true. Many people point out that this is far more prelevent in 40k and it is. However it does have a basis for the savage orc warpaint stopping a killing blow as if they had armor.
-Sheer number of the orcs.
-Trolls
-Giants
-Snotling mobs (Imagine a hundred tiny greenskins that belong to the don't give a ♥♥♥♥ club swarm you and tear you apart with teeth, claws, and small pointy objects.)
-Arachnaroks
-Spider calvary (can easily climb walls and the giant spiders are numerous.)
-Simplistic cleverness (This one is odd, but it is true. Take for example a night goblin warboss once drugged up a bunch of squigs and gifted them to the skaven they were at war with as a token of peace. A few hours later when the drugs wore off the goblins simply followed the sounds of battle to find the skaven hiding places.)
-Wyverns

Cons:
-Cowardly goblins
-In fighting
-Largely stupid


Warcraft Pros:
-More Spell casters
-Are a (mostly) united faction
-Have healers
-They have a form of leadership in place
-Wyvern riders. (granted they are small and no excuse for a wyvern but these mamals are plentiful and give the warcraft orcs a bit of an ariel advantage.)

Cons:
-Their magic is weaker in comparison to the greenskins.
-Each caster has a limited pool of casting (mana) compared to the greenskins.
-There are non fighting forces in the horde.
-The amount of time it takes to replenish their lost fighter. (unlike the Greenskins the warcraft orcs are mamalian and go through an adolescent development stage.)

Lotr orcs Pros:
-Have a similar birthing method to greenskins and can replenish quickly.
-Olag-hai
-Trolls
-Wargs (intelligent mounts and natural carnivores give them a bit of an edge for this.)
-In depth knowledge of poisons.
-Great tunnelers, easy for these creatures to carve out a stronghold from mountains.
-Can have good tactics such as the uruk-hai of the white hand.
-Large numbers.
-Few-none non fighting forces.

Cons:
-Very cowardly, they need a fearsome leader for them to go out into a fight.
-Bad track records. (Often the victories of the orcs are back with Morgoth.)
-Infighting.
-Lack of magic.

Orsimir Pros:
-Able to make the best weapons and Armor in Tamriel. (That is what they are known for.)
-Often make some of the best heavy fighters.
-Have repeled numerous invasions but more flexible and more experienced armies and kingdoms.

Cons:
-Small in number.
-Infantry focused. (where as the others do have some form of calvary and monostrous infantry.)
-Lack of magic.


Hope this helps. I focused on the main points of each orc race mentioned in the thread. The short of it is simply that the greenskins have more lore. Now with warcraft orcs idk what time period we are talking about so I went with current WoW horde orc faction. Same with Lotr, are we talking the time of Morgoth of during the ring saga? I went with the ring saga. Now the Orsimir I love, a little awkward because I also love the bretons and they were the ones they have beaten back. The simple truth with the Orsimir is that we don't know much about them. So I took what is known from the elder scrolls but not the elder scrolls online because idk how lore friendly that is and in honesty it would change very little.

Can't wait for the inevitable "You don't know what you're talking about." post. ;)

You know not about which you speak!

[TheGrungiOne]

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

You know not about which you speak!

You sonnova...

[Daryl]

Originally posted by Honved_Andras:

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

You know not about which you speak!

You sonnova...

i agree
Honved_Andras gave a summarized detailed analysis,
now im waiting for JonWoo89's rebuttal if there is any.

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by Daryl:

Originally posted by Honved_Andras:

You sonnova...

i agree
Honved_Andras gave a summarized detailed analysis,
now im waiting for JonWoo89's rebuttal if there is any.

Nah, not to you. Your post was resonable, thought out, and informed. That other dude though...

[Daryl]

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

Originally posted by Daryl:

i agree
Honved_Andras gave a summarized detailed analysis,
now im waiting for JonWoo89's rebuttal if there is any.

Nah, not to you. Your post was resonable, thought out, and informed. That other dude though...

lol
okay

[Daryl]

Originally posted by Serx:

I am going to jump back in this for a moment.

For me its a close call between Warhammer Orcs and Greenskins. However, I do not think that the lord of the rings orcs really stand a chance in the running. Im not even sure how that got into this conversation. They seem to me to just be weaker forms of greenskins.

Perhaps I cannot see warcraft's domination because I will alway look at it in terms of warcraft 3, instead of the more modern WoW. From reading the posts, I have come to the conclusion that Warcraft 3 orcs wouldn't even be a speed bump for greenskins. However, the modern WoW lore is up to scale that Warcraft will probably notch out a win. Probably a few centuries of wins. But the greenskins will never be truely defeated.

Warhammer orcs will keep comming back even if it takes centuries till they win. In a very warhammer way that constant lurking threat that you cannot remove and can never ignore because if you let it get momentum it will destroy the world. The question as with all things in warhammer. How long can you hold back the inevitable.

that is if all the Orcs would unite together
Death Knight Orcs fighting Greenskins would be quite exciting

[Sholynyk]

In a single battle? the Orcs from warcraft. in a long drawn out war, Da Ork WAAAAGH! due to their spores, faster reproduction.