Kemmler vs Mannfred?

[JoeVonFo]

Hi there :)

I've looked these to legendary lords over, and does kemmler bring ANYTHING to the table that mannfred doesnt??
Mannfred litteratly seems better in every way.

Am i missing something?

[White, the Loiterer]

Friendly combatants in Kemmler's vincity recover health.

That's it.

[Harukage]

People wanted Kemmler for whatever reason, so devs made Kemmler. Otherwise he is a pure caster with more focus on magic/leadership oposed to Manfred's billion skill trees.
Offcourse the fact that the other VCs lord and the rest of heroes are already dead at that time period lore wise does not help either. At least Devs should have added Krell to come with Kemmler.
Better still, bring back Vlad, the greatest of Von Carsteins.

[JoeVonFo]

Warlordsofrome: Where do you see that in his tree?? is it the quest-item bonus?

Harukage: As far as i can tell he doesnt really have more abilities when speaking of magic/leadership? Mannfred just have even more options if you so desire :P

[Harukage]

I said he is focused, i never said he has more abilities. :)
He should have a companion hero - Krell. Ancient chaos champion turned wight king. But devs did not bothered to add him. So we got a half assed necromancer lord with unique skin.

[White, the Loiterer]

Originally posted by Raijin:

Warlordsofrome: Where do you see that in his tree?? is it the quest-item bonus?

I played a custom battle with him.

It looked at his unit details and at the bottom he had an ability that I hadn't seen before that said he replenishes the HP of combatants.

[Longtoke]

♥♥♥♥ all the vamps, they are minions....mere pretenders...blindly toying with forces they can not comprehend, their foolishness will be their undoing.

NAGASH will return.

[DecayWolf]

Originally posted by WarlordOfRome:

Originally posted by Raijin:

Warlordsofrome: Where do you see that in his tree?? is it the quest-item bonus?

I played a custom battle with him.

It looked at his unit details and at the bottom he had an ability that I hadn't seen before that said he replenishes the HP of combatants.

Dominion of undeath? Master of undead? or Invocation of Neherak overcharged? 2 of 3 any Vampire lord can do, and his aura of regeneration is pretty weak. Overall speaking I think any vampire lord can do the exactly same thing than Kemmler and they also are stronger than him, since even commanders vampire lords, can fight much better, even with kemmler's epic items. And on top of that, zombie dragon.

[Harukage]

Nagash was so great that he died to ratmen plots and Sigmar's hammer bitchslap. He had also ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up with governing and politics when he finaly was able to rule his brother's kingdom, turning all the nobles and king of Nekehara against himself. Well played.
Forever alone wizard syndrome.
He was indeed the greatest mage born though. That i will give him. Slaan mage-priests and Teclis are pretty lame compared to a guy who created true immortality, cursed giant country with his last words, mastered Dark Magic better than dark elves and eventualy consumed old gods of Nekehara during the End Times. He also had the best miniature ever in the End Times campaign.


I don't realy think that vampires don't know what they are doing either.
For one Neferata was able to almost recreate the Elixir of Life. That is given that she is pretty lousy and implusive as a person. And that involved studing the Books of Nagash that notably have many mistakes left on purpose. And the only place where she made mistake was a dragon blood, as Abhorash's experience later proved.
The fact that vampires weaken on direct sunlight is caused by Nagashes curse he inflicted on vampires for "betrayal" after one of his fails. They did not possesed that trait before.
Otherwise vampires are natural necromancers by instinct alone. When they bother to study magic - there are not many who can compare themselves to vampiric skills.
At base though they much like Nagash. Superego.and oportunism are their traits.

[The Coal Man]

Originally posted by Raijin:

Hi there :)

I've looked these to legendary lords over, and does kemmler bring ANYTHING to the table that mannfred doesnt??
Mannfred litteratly seems better in every way.

Am i missing something?

asked about this before, ever single answer was Kemmler was complete ♥♥♥♥. Even if mannfred wasnt OP, Kemmler is just plain bad. He cant do a single thing that mannfred cannot, and loses death magic, combat ability, a giant undead dragon, an 10% upkeep reduction for the bulk of your endgame army, more campaign movement speed, and a giant monster at the start. In return, Kemmler gets 15% cheaper raise dead costs (not bad), and a discount on necromancers (pretty useless). His items arent awful but he doesnt actually get much to improve him over a generic necromancer, either general or agent.

[Sir Harlz]

Start with manfred then get kimmler. Kimmler is just a normal necro wizard but his HP regain is actually really good if used properly. So yeah, kimmler is basically a wizard with a buff.

[Saereth345]

I will say this the balancing Act for the vampire counts is off and probally needs to be reworked.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by WarlordOfRome:

Originally posted by Raijin:

Warlordsofrome: Where do you see that in his tree?? is it the quest-item bonus?

I played a custom battle with him.

It looked at his unit details and at the bottom he had an ability that I hadn't seen before that said he replenishes the HP of combatants.

This is an ability ALL necromancers can unlock (I think you need to be level 4), be they a lord or hero; it's on the top line (with mounts etc) on their skill tree..

Put a necromancer hero with Mannfred's army and you'll have it. Put them behind the centre of your line and you're constantly healing your troops (they get an on-screen effect to show it).

Equally, a vampire hero can give you the same magic (spirit leach for getting rid of single lords/heroes/mosters on the battlefield) a vampire lord can.

A great combo is to give your lord a hero with whichever they lack, so a necromancer with vampire lords and a vampire with a necromancer lord.

Buff your basic units' stats and park a necromancer behind them and you're a LOT tougher in yourr centre.

Also really useful if you have units that regen, or indead any monsters that don't, because they can get low in health in combat and you can run/fly them back to within the aura and heal them up automatically. Of course the heal spell will add to that. It's important to note that it doesn't of itself replace lost bodies within a unit, but that might happen were you to heal them back to full in the aura then cast the spell that also raises dead units (the spell replaces health of existing individuals within a unit, then starts to replace the units after that, so I imagine the spell cast on something at full health but reduced numbers should start to replace the numbers; haven't tested it yet, but that's what ought to happen from the descriptions).

That whole "constant health regen and raise lost units" is a mechanic I think is something to be understoof to get the best out of the vamps as many of their basic units have significantly worse numbers than their other faction counterparts.

[Cato Sicarius]

Kemmler without Krell is like Hamburger without the meat. They should have made him a Krell//Kemmler duo hero unit.

[Nemesis]

Add Nagash already!!