Vampire Counts vs Greenskins (advice needed)

[PeskyBees]

Ok so I'm using the Vampire Counts against another human player using the Greenskins. All was fine and dandy until they started to use a vast amount of Black Orcs which are only 1000gp a unit.

Black Orcs pound for pound can tank and slay any infrantry unit the VC have including Lords. Has anyone got any useful tips for taking on hordes of Black Orcs? The problem seems to be the cost of other units, as the Black Orcs are only 1000gp. If I'm to find another unit to stand up to them I need something cost affective otherwise spending 1500gp on Hexwraiths and a unit of skeletons to keep them busy is too expensive.

Not to mention it takes no time at all for the Black Orcs to pile through a unit of skeletons and If I were to use the Grave Guard (great weapons) against them 900 gp a unit. Which means I only have a spare 100gp to work with to get an upper hand.

Also has anyone had experience using the VC against Gaints? What is the most affective way to take down a Giant using the VCs? VCs don't have very good anti-large units. You have a Terrorgheist pound for pound will get squashed vs a Giant or you have tier 1 skeletons with spears that have anti-large, neither or can stand against it. Not to mention is Giant is only 1600gp and a Terrorgheist is around 2000gp.

Any tactical advise is appreciated.

Thanks

[Daryl]

Originally posted by Larethian:

Also has anyone had experience using the VC against Gaints? What is the most affective way to take down a Giant using the VCs? VCs don't have very good anti-large units. You have a Terrorgheist pound for pound will get squashed vs a Giant or you have tier 1 skeletons with spears that have anti-large, neither or can stand against it. Not to mention is Giant is only 1600gp and a Terrorgheist is around 2000gp.

Any tactical advise is appreciated.

Thanks

Okay. For that you definitely need Terrorgheists and vargwulfs with some high magic units to shatter the giants

i am a chaos user
and i had a fight
where i used 5 chaos giants
against thousands of VC units
lets just say Skeletons and Zombies get decimated quite easily

though try Skeleton Guards with polearms or something
the one with a + Large Monster damage
that usually cuts down enemy large units fast.

[Sheytanaslan]

For VC get thier skelly dragons...game over.

[PeskyBees]

@Daryl: Problem using Skeletons with spears vs Giants is that they get squashed very quickly, too quickly to do any real damage. The only thing I can think of is magic, but its not a quick solution to take a giant down even with magic?

Also I attempted to stand a Varghulf up against a giant and a Terrorgheist they both were squashed very quickly.

[Kingbowie]

dude man u have the best mage in the game as vc just use spells on giants the 1s that r single target spells and anything that has bonus vs large. And about the black orcs, ye they strong but they take 3 turns to make so my advice would be either just build 2 ♥♥♥♥ armies vs his 1 good 1 and try wear them down coz wen they gone u have oppurtunity to attack or use etheral units coz black orcs have armour penetration and generally do less damage against none armoured units, so for me etheral units could work coz they have no armour and a 75% chance that they wont get hit at all and they have armour penetration. I have just finished the greenskins on legendary and let me tell u it was 1 of the hardest campaigns for me took me 250+ turns to complete and from the very start i was at war surrounded for the majority of the game so unless u playing on easy i would try strike early seen a though ur pretty close anyway .

[Kimse]

VC rely heavyly on tar tactic. wich means you use big unit sized units like zombies or skelly sword/shield version to tie down, in this case, the black orcs.
Then you flank him and or rear charging the black orcs with other more hardhitting units.

Regarding Giants, im not really sure. other than Terrorgheist wich is a specific anti-large monster the VC have. come to think about it, I also suggest you try out Cairn Vraiths vs the Giant. Cause with cairns the thumb rule is : The bigger target you throw them at, the better the cairns are.
That means, dont use cairns vs big sized units like black orcs but rather against lords and big monsters and artillery and so on.
Cairns have very high movement also, so they easy to manouver into the right postion with

hope it helps
Kim

[ChibiFenrir]

Going to say off the bat I am not much of a vamp player at all, but I'll chuck in my 2cents anyway.
take grave guard with greatweapons, and grab a couple of zombies so the zombie tank for your grave guard, then grab some black knights and skele spears, use the black knights to rear charge the black orcs while they are pinned and use the spears to fight the giants 1v1 giant will beat spear but 2 - 3 spears can beat a giant and are still way cheaper then a gaint.

for tatics try and bait out the giants and surround them with your spearmen, then try and enage the black orcs with your zombie then pull your grave guard in, so zombies take the blunt of the charge bouns, then wheel your cav around to rear charge the black orcs, also spaming l spirt leech on thier hero/lord will help kill them off very fast

[Veni]

Its a bit late to reply, but against the black orcs I would try a meatshield, meat grinder, charge strategy. 2 groups of skellies head on to soak up damage, crypt horrors on the flank, and black knights (lances and barding) to do some killing. The crypt horrors may be able to do it alone, but part of playing the game is to kill efficiently. Don't forget your boost and debuff spells too. Vanhels Dance Macabre (vampires) and Soulblight (death) will go miles

[Captain Deadpool]

bloodknights are better

[Veni]

They are better against large with their boneses, I think the black knights will perform better against infantry because of higher damage vs inf.

[GenericNickname]

I'm not great with Vamps, but if you're getting beaten, few tips
1) Dance Macabre is insanely powerful, drop on some grave guard
2) The mortis engine (if you have DLC) offers a higher boosted regen for troops. You need it for tarpitting
3) Summon zombies behind enemies to create more of a grind
4)Hammer and anvil strategy against black orcs, black knights should suffice, make sure your cycle charging.
Spirit Leech to wear down giants.

[Disasterpiece]

blood knights ? they are by far one of the best units i used in entire game.

[Disasterpiece]

and by the way, if he has eco to pump out vast black orcs while some wraiths are too expensive for you, you also have an income issue.. which needs fixing. there is no beating black orcs and giants with skeletons

[Veni]

Nobody has claimed blood knights are bad. They are killer; but if you look at the stats they have a lower damage than lances and barding black knights and blood knights instead get a bonus against large. Black Knights have better stats vs infantry with a bonus to augment it. I tend to treat the blood knights as anti-cav cav before using them as regular shock cav.

[GenericNickname]

Originally posted by Disasterpiece:

and by the way, if he has eco to pump out vast black orcs while some wraiths are too expensive for you, you also have an income issue.. which needs fixing. there is no beating black orcs and giants with skeletons

This is for multiplayer, not for campaign. Multiplayer has limited budget for unit picking, hence why people are not reccomending blood knights. Although they are powerful, they don't fill the role OP needs, and as such are too expensive to fill the role a cheaper unit does nearly as well.

[Sonnenbank]

Just found this topic since yesterday i played my first multiplayerbattle vs a friend....
I went VC and he went Greenskins.... he used mass Black Orcs + Grimgore and 2 Giants while buffing them with waaaagh and i got destroyed... tried to replay the battle vs the AI using different VC Units and got destroyed everytime... Simple truth Black Orcs + Giants is insanely good vs VC no matter what unit composition... Some people suggested soul spirit leech... but it only does ~ 600-1100 damage and a Giant has 8000 health.. same with Gaze of Nagash... it basically does 500-1000 damage and has a chance to miss and self harm the hero significantly + projectiles may also miss... So to take down 2 Giants you would need 20+ Casts of that spells .... Giants are also insanely good hero Killers since they ignore Armor and do 450damage a hit...

You need 2 Vargulfs to equal a single Giant .... 2800gold vs 1600 gold....
1 Therrorgheist gets smashed by a Giant 1700gold vs 1600 gold
Heroes get smashed by a giant
Blood knights do okayish but still lose 1700gold vs 1600gold
magic does not enogh damage
Spear Skeletons get smashed by a Giant unless you have so many of them that half your army consists of Spearmen ....

And the next problem is that once you spend so much effort killing the giants you got diminished by the black orcs

So basically VC lose vs Giants+Black Orcs unless you are a far better player