Archaon the underchosen?

[steelmidnight]

I have been surfing Youtube videos, and noticed many people saying what I have been thinking...Archaon does NOT live up to his tabletop lore or abilities. I heard one video state "Archaon is decent in melee for a wizard, but is no match for Thorgrim". And yet another say "Kholek is the strongest of the Chaos Lords, hands down. Its odd that Archaon is the everchosen, as weak as he is in combat". These are quotes from the likes of big youtuber contributors (such as Heir of Carthage and Warrior of Sparta, two of the best that I highly recommend checking out) and people who sub to them, and I can point to dozens that say pretty much the same thing....Archaon is truly underwhelming (its NOT just my opinion, which is what someone once told me. Its fact....And this is an insult to the table top Archaon, who is MEGA op on the Tables. He is marked by all 4 Gods for a reason, and the only one to be given that honor in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. It is nearly impossible to take Archaon down on the table.

I realize they want to tone it down because of the whiners, but they need to get with the fact that this is asymmetrical warfare, and not a game where everything should be balanced and equal....The whole point of a fantasy strategy game revolves around this type of warfare.

That being said, Archaon needs to be buffed up and given his due, and it shouldnt be up to modders to do so. As a 28 yr player and fan of Chaos for nearly 20 of that, I am VERY disapointed with the lackluster presentation of Chao, especially Archaon himself. No wonder people new to the franchise think of Chaos as a mediocre force. If demon spider and others hadnt done the mods they did, Chaos would be boring as hell! And they should NEVER be a boring choice!!!

And I know other Chaos fans may feel the same way. And we need to speak up about it, and get them to do Archaon the stats and abilities he deserves. He should NEVER be overshadowed by another Chaos Lord, not even Kholek....And I am not even an Archaon fan (I am into Khorne myself), but a lackluster Archaon just doesnt seem right....

And the same can be said for Vlad, who should be absolutely terrifying to face (and I dont play VCs, but that , too, isnt right....) As I said, its asymmetrical warfare, so do these characters right if your going to do them.

Vlad, Archaon, and Malekith are the three most powerful melee characters in the Warhammer universe (with Grimgor and the Slayer King right behind them as close seconds) And Archaon should NEVER be considered weaker then other Lords of Chaos...So this is NOT right...But those who have only played TWW would NEVER know this about these guys.....And have a false perspective of these awesome characters.

I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter, though I will just ignore jackass trolls so dont waste your time unless you want a rational discussion

. Please list the Characters, monsters, troops, ect, you find underwhelming compared to TT, and lets send CA a list!

[Shandor]

Escrito originalmente por CPU 19 (RIP arena 2016-2016):

Escrito originalmente por SleepyNarwhalz:

This isn't storm of chaos though

BUt storm of chaos is the best lore so lets just say its storm of chaos

Storm of Chaos isnt even lore. So lets say its not :)

[Perfect Femcell]

Escrito originalmente por Shandor:

Escrito originalmente por CPU 19 (RIP arena 2016-2016):

BUt storm of chaos is the best lore so lets just say its storm of chaos

Storm of Chaos isnt even lore. So lets say its not :)

so you prefer the ♥♥♥♥ times?

[Sernior]

Escrito originalmente por =PrivateXTC=:

CA make Total War games so keeping it a Total War game is smart. Warhammer is not their IP and it's not who CA is. Your moaning in this thread is getting so stupid now it's laughable.

Edit: And mod Archaons stats if you're that bothered about it seriously.

Seriously? Why do you think they did not do another historical game then? I mean not even worth answering you cause of the offensive nature of your post but at least I hope that with these simple questions I may have woken your brain (however considering the depth of your arguments in this discussion I think may be a bit more difficult).

[George Flowberry]

nah. grimgor almost beated archaons ass in 1v1.

[steelmidnight]

Escrito originalmente por =PrivateXTC=:

CA make Total War games so keeping it a Total War game is smart. Warhammer is not their IP and it's not who CA is. Your moaning in this thread is getting so stupid now it's laughable.

Edit: And mod Archaons stats if you're that bothered about it seriously.

Its not moaning, its discussing. And a pleasant one at that, save for such jackass comments lol. If you dont like the opinions, nor want to bother joining in these discussions of opinions, then dont come here and moan. For real, as the only laughable post I have read thus far was yours.

It isnt about modding his stats, there are plenty of cheats for that.

Its about LORE wise portrayal of a fan favorite.

And people getting the wrong impression of him and other characters when they are new to Warhammer Lore. If you dont get that, then obviously your one of them.

Not too quick on the whole comprehension thing, are you?

Lore is very improtant in this genre, just as historical accuracy is important in others.

But its clear such a concept is over your head, as your comment clearly defines your shallow take on whats being discussed.

[steelmidnight]

Escrito originalmente por federignoli:

Escrito originalmente por =PrivateXTC=:

CA make Total War games so keeping it a Total War game is smart. Warhammer is not their IP and it's not who CA is. Your moaning in this thread is getting so stupid now it's laughable.

Edit: And mod Archaons stats if you're that bothered about it seriously.

Seriously? Why do you think they did not do another historical game then? I mean not even worth answering you cause of the offensive nature of your post but at least I hope that with these simple questions I may have woken your brain (however considering the depth of your arguments in this discussion I think may be a bit more difficult).

Theres ALWAYS at least one jackass that pops up. I'm surprised it took THIS long for one to pop in the discussion haha!

Goes to show, that most of the Warhammer community are great people!

....Then there are +these+ guys ..........>_>

[drazan]

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

I have been surfing Youtube videos, and noticed many people saying what I have been thinking...Archaon does NOT live up to his tabletop lore or abilities. I heard one video state "Archaon is decent in melee for a wizard, but is no match for Thorgrim". And yet another say "Kholek is the strongest of the Chaos Lords, hands down. Its odd that Archaon is the everchosen, as weak as he is in combat". These are quotes from the likes of big youtuber contributors (such as Heir of Carthage and Warrior of Sparta, two of the best that I highly recommend checking out) and people who sub to them, and I can point to dozens that say pretty much the same thing....Archaon is truly underwhelming (its NOT just my opinion, which is what someone once told me. Its fact....And this is an insult to the table top Archaon, who is MEGA op on the Tables. He is marked by all 4 Gods for a reason, and the only one to be given that honor in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. It is nearly impossible to take Archaon down on the table.

I realize they want to tone it down because of the whiners, but they need to get with the fact that this is asymmetrical warfare, and not a game where everything should be balanced and equal....The whole point of a fantasy strategy game revolves around this type of warfare.

That being said, Archaon needs to be buffed up and given his due, and it shouldnt be up to modders to do so. As a 28 yr player and fan of Chaos for nearly 20 of that, I am VERY disapointed with the lackluster presentation of Chao, especially Archaon himself. No wonder people new to the franchise think of Chaos as a mediocre force. If demon spider and others hadnt done the mods they did, Chaos would be boring as hell! And they should NEVER be a boring choice!!!

And I know other Chaos fans may feel the same way. And we need to speak up about it, and get them to do Archaon the stats and abilities he deserves. He should NEVER be overshadowed by another Chaos Lord, not even Kholek....And I am not even an Archaon fan (I am into Khorne myself), but a lackluster Archaon just doesnt seem right....

And the same can be said for Vlad, who should be absolutely terrifying to face (and I dont play VCs, but that , too, isnt right....) As I said, its asymmetrical warfare, so do these characters right if your going to do them.

Vlad, Archaon, and Malekith are the three most powerful melee characters in the Warhammer universe (with Grimgor and the Slayer King right behind them as close seconds) And Archaon should NEVER be considered weaker then other Lords of Chaos...So this is NOT right...But those who have only played TWW would NEVER know this about these guys.....And have a false perspective of these awesome characters.

I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter, though I will just ignore jackass trolls so dont waste your time unless you want a rational discussion

. Please list the Characters, monsters, troops, ect, you find underwhelming compared to TT, and lets send CA a list!

what?? vlad was not one of the most powerful warriors at all, vlad "died" many times but it was his "plot" ring that kept bringing him back. vlad lost his head to a cannonball, like a cannonball really removed his head..yet nothing happened, vlad just returned.

for me the most powerful fighters would be valten,grimgor,tyrion. other are just hiding behind '"magical items"

the fact that it took archaeon the full powers of the chaos goda, and to unleash the greater deamon caught in his sword to finnish off grimgor says enough for me. he is NOTHING without his "my armour protects me from anything" and other plot-gear

[steelmidnight]

Escrito originalmente por drazan:

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

I have been surfing Youtube videos, and noticed many people saying what I have been thinking...Archaon does NOT live up to his tabletop lore or abilities. I heard one video state "Archaon is decent in melee for a wizard, but is no match for Thorgrim". And yet another say "Kholek is the strongest of the Chaos Lords, hands down. Its odd that Archaon is the everchosen, as weak as he is in combat". These are quotes from the likes of big youtuber contributors (such as Heir of Carthage and Warrior of Sparta, two of the best that I highly recommend checking out) and people who sub to them, and I can point to dozens that say pretty much the same thing....Archaon is truly underwhelming (its NOT just my opinion, which is what someone once told me. Its fact....And this is an insult to the table top Archaon, who is MEGA op on the Tables. He is marked by all 4 Gods for a reason, and the only one to be given that honor in the Warhammer Fantasy universe. It is nearly impossible to take Archaon down on the table.

I realize they want to tone it down because of the whiners, but they need to get with the fact that this is asymmetrical warfare, and not a game where everything should be balanced and equal....The whole point of a fantasy strategy game revolves around this type of warfare.

That being said, Archaon needs to be buffed up and given his due, and it shouldnt be up to modders to do so. As a 28 yr player and fan of Chaos for nearly 20 of that, I am VERY disapointed with the lackluster presentation of Chao, especially Archaon himself. No wonder people new to the franchise think of Chaos as a mediocre force. If demon spider and others hadnt done the mods they did, Chaos would be boring as hell! And they should NEVER be a boring choice!!!

And I know other Chaos fans may feel the same way. And we need to speak up about it, and get them to do Archaon the stats and abilities he deserves. He should NEVER be overshadowed by another Chaos Lord, not even Kholek....And I am not even an Archaon fan (I am into Khorne myself), but a lackluster Archaon just doesnt seem right....

And the same can be said for Vlad, who should be absolutely terrifying to face (and I dont play VCs, but that , too, isnt right....) As I said, its asymmetrical warfare, so do these characters right if your going to do them.

Vlad, Archaon, and Malekith are the three most powerful melee characters in the Warhammer universe (with Grimgor and the Slayer King right behind them as close seconds) And Archaon should NEVER be considered weaker then other Lords of Chaos...So this is NOT right...But those who have only played TWW would NEVER know this about these guys.....And have a false perspective of these awesome characters.

I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter, though I will just ignore jackass trolls so dont waste your time unless you want a rational discussion

. Please list the Characters, monsters, troops, ect, you find underwhelming compared to TT, and lets send CA a list!

what?? vlad was not one of the most powerful warriors at all, vlad "died" many times but it was his "plot" ring that kept bringing him back. vlad lost his head to a cannonball, like a cannonball really removed his head..yet nothing happened, vlad just returned.

for me the most powerful fighters would be valten,grimgor,tyrion. other are just hiding behind '"magical items"

As I stated further on in the posts, my experiance with Vlad is based on my impressions from what his fans have said. Not so much first hand with him.

As for Archaon, you may be right, there. But the fact remains that he DOES have these things, which are part of who he is. Without them....Yeah I see your point somewhat...But remember, he was given most of these (or earned them) through skill that impressed the 4 Gods themselves, wheras other champions who were quite bad ass didnt. That says something for him.....

[Perfect Femcell]

Escrito originalmente por IblameObamaCare:

nah. grimgor almost beated archaons ass in 1v1.

he diddnt almost he crushed his nuts and headbuted a hole in his solid plate helmate

[steelmidnight]

Escrito originalmente por CPU 19 (RIP arena 2016-2016):

Escrito originalmente por IblameObamaCare:

nah. grimgor almost beated archaons ass in 1v1.

he diddnt almost he crushed his nuts and headbuted a hole in his solid plate helmate

I take nothing from Grimgor. He is supposed to be an absolute terror as well, and I think he was well done for the most part. (Maybe a LITTLE undercooked, but not much...) But then the worse beating I have ever taken in over 1000 Hrs was from him haha so I DO kind of get nervous against him....And I want that feeling with ALL the characters and monsters who should inspire these feelings.

My whole point is that these named characters should inspire much more dread then they do. People in Multiplayer should be nervous about seeing certain ones across the field. And on the campaign map they should be like boss fights in there powerlevel. Maybe I am just getting a bad impression from the reactions I have seen personally. Or maybe its true. Thats why I wanted opinions :)

[drazan]

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

Escrito originalmente por drazan:

what?? vlad was not one of the most powerful warriors at all, vlad "died" many times but it was his "plot" ring that kept bringing him back. vlad lost his head to a cannonball, like a cannonball really removed his head..yet nothing happened, vlad just returned.

for me the most powerful fighters would be valten,grimgor,tyrion. other are just hiding behind '"magical items"

As I stated further on in the posts, my experiance with Vlad is based on my impressions from what his fans have said. Not so much first hand with him.

As for Archaon, you may be right, there. But the fact remains that he DOES have these things, which are part of who he is. Without them....Yeah I see your point somewhat...But remember, he was given most of these (or earned them) through skill that impressed the 4 Gods themselves, wheras other champions who were quite bad ass didnt. That says something for him.....

the chaos gods just want to see the world burn, so they assist the "chosen one" what would happen, if the orcs did the same? what would happen if archaon was just archaon and grimgor was assisted by both mork and gork..see where i'm going :p

the big thing is, archaon was designed to win. chaos were supposed to be the triumphants. hell even sigmar himself (al be it reincarnated in karl franz) could not win from archaon.freaking sigmar

[steelmidnight]

Escrito originalmente por drazan:

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

As I stated further on in the posts, my experiance with Vlad is based on my impressions from what his fans have said. Not so much first hand with him.

As for Archaon, you may be right, there. But the fact remains that he DOES have these things, which are part of who he is. Without them....Yeah I see your point somewhat...But remember, he was given most of these (or earned them) through skill that impressed the 4 Gods themselves, wheras other champions who were quite bad ass didnt. That says something for him.....

the chaos gods just want to see the world burn, so they assist the "chosen one" what would happen, if the orcs did the same? what would happen if archaon was just archaon and grimgor was assisted by both mork and gork..see where i'm going :p

the big thing is, archaon was designed to win. chaos were supposed to be the triumphants. hell even sigmar himself (al be it reincarnated in karl franz) could not win from archaon.freaking sigmar

Even though I AM a Chaos fanboy, I do have to agree. Grimgor was hell BEFORE he got his items. Most notably when his crazy as bat sh*t a** picked a fight with a skaven...........CITY LOL. By him self. Out of boredom....And he WON....Killing everything from Rat Ogres to assasins to legions of stormvermin (does he even tire lol) , and all there warpstone weaponry couldnt stop him. So yeah, without items I WOULD put my money on Grimgor,

Maybe THATS how archaon should be....Lower stats and stronger weapons? And make the quests to get them crazy hard for balance, so that only vets could use him effectively....Now I could get behind THAT XD And have him maxed and geared in the hands of AI maybe? Perhaps allowing him only on the highest difficulty so he isnt exploited, but something to fear.....THAT would make more sense, now that you brought that up.

[drazan]

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

Escrito originalmente por drazan:

the chaos gods just want to see the world burn, so they assist the "chosen one" what would happen, if the orcs did the same? what would happen if archaon was just archaon and grimgor was assisted by both mork and gork..see where i'm going :p

the big thing is, archaon was designed to win. chaos were supposed to be the triumphants. hell even sigmar himself (al be it reincarnated in karl franz) could not win from archaon.freaking sigmar

Even though I AM a Chaos fanboy, I do have to agree. Grimgor was hell BEFORE he got his items. Most notably when his crazy as bat sh*t a** picked a fight with a skaven...........CITY LOL. By him self. Out of boredom....And he WON....Killing everything from Rat Ogres to assasins to legions of stormvermin (does he even tire lol) , and all there warpstone weaponry couldnt stop him. So yeah, without items I WOULD put my money on Grimgor,

Maybe THATS how archaon should be....Lower stats and stronger weapons? And make the quests to get them crazy hard for balance, so that only vets could use him effectively....Now I could get behind THAT XD And have him maxed and geared in the hands of AI maybe? Perhaps allowing him only on the highest difficulty so he isnt exploited, but something to fear.....THAT would make more sense, now that you brought that up.

well i would put my money on khazrak (spelled?) the beastmen legendary lord. his whip "scourge" negates all the effects from magical items. so what would happen if khazrak fought archaon, without archaon benefitting from his gear that way? interesting things to think about

[steelmidnight]

Escrito originalmente por drazan:

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

Even though I AM a Chaos fanboy, I do have to agree. Grimgor was hell BEFORE he got his items. Most notably when his crazy as bat sh*t a** picked a fight with a skaven...........CITY LOL. By him self. Out of boredom....And he WON....Killing everything from Rat Ogres to assasins to legions of stormvermin (does he even tire lol) , and all there warpstone weaponry couldnt stop him. So yeah, without items I WOULD put my money on Grimgor,

Maybe THATS how archaon should be....Lower stats and stronger weapons? And make the quests to get them crazy hard for balance, so that only vets could use him effectively....Now I could get behind THAT XD And have him maxed and geared in the hands of AI maybe? Perhaps allowing him only on the highest difficulty so he isnt exploited, but something to fear.....THAT would make more sense, now that you brought that up.

well i would put my money on khazrak (spelled?) the beastmen legendary lord. his whip "scourge" negates all the effects from magical items. so what would happen if khazrak fought archaon, without archaon benefitting from his gear that way? interesting things to think about

Khazrak is fantastic! I just now (like 20 mins ago) finished my beastmen long campaign, and he is alot of fun to use! I used a mod to buff up Malagor, and Demon spiders excellent beastmen evolved mod, but left everthing else as is. And LOVED playing them, once I got over not getting cities...AGAIN....(As I used conquer anywhere with Chaos)....However, once you get into the submersion of watching the world burn, it got adicting as hell. Especially if you dont play nice with ALL factions (IE be at war with all)...It was a rush. The only thing was all the chariot micromanagement (For those who dont know how to use Chariots, and read this, which I doubt is you or most on here, but just in case, a tip- KEEP your CHARIOTS MOBILE AT ALL TIMES...NEVER leave them in melee!!!) You'd be surprised at how many dont know how you do chariots in this game. But anyone who has played beastmen has to know this or be in trouble lol).

But yeah. He is another one that could screw over ALOT of item-based characters. But I think Grimgor would win that fight. As would Kholek.

[PrivateXTC]

Escrito originalmente por steelmidnight:

Escrito originalmente por =PrivateXTC=:

CA make Total War games so keeping it a Total War game is smart. Warhammer is not their IP and it's not who CA is. Your moaning in this thread is getting so stupid now it's laughable.

Edit: And mod Archaons stats if you're that bothered about it seriously.

Its not moaning, its discussing. And a pleasant one at that, save for such jackass comments lol. If you dont like the opinions, nor want to bother joining in these discussions of opinions, then dont come here and moan. For real, as the only laughable post I have read thus far was yours.

It isnt about modding his stats, there are plenty of cheats for that.

Its about LORE wise portrayal of a fan favorite.

And people getting the wrong impression of him and other characters when they are new to Warhammer Lore. If you dont get that, then obviously your one of them.

Not too quick on the whole comprehension thing, are you?

Lore is very improtant in this genre, just as historical accuracy is important in others.

But its clear such a concept is over your head, as your comment clearly defines your shallow take on whats being discussed.

OK Champ, whatever.