Belegar Ironhammer and Thorin Oakenshield

[Daryl]

Was Belegar conceived by GW as a nod off to "The Hobbit" some decades ago when Tolkien's works was just books and disturbing animations?

I mean Belegar Ironhammer and Thorin Oakenshield have alot of resemblance
In their scenario being displaced quite far away to try and reclaim their Ancestral Home and their Inherited Right.

And Ironhammer is like.. come on.. Oakenshield, Ironhammer.

They are also during their journey getting harrassed and hunted by their enemies which outnumbers them and also one of their main plights.

And no im not talking about the Pale Orc. That guy died ages ago in the Novel and didnt even make it so far as the main antagonist of the Peter Jackson version.

...

What do you guys think?
Was it a nod to Tolkien?
Or was it completely separate and unrelated?

[Daryl]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Theres definitely similarities, yeah.

But is it a homage character?

[SleepyNarwhalz]

No, it might look like it from the way that CA presented Belegar but the way he is actually is much, MUCH different.

[Daryl]

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

No, it might look like it from the way that CA presented Belegar but the way he is actually is much, MUCH different.

do tell me more.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

No, it might look like it from the way that CA presented Belegar but the way he is actually is much, MUCH different.

How so?

Originally posted by Daryl:

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

No, it might look like it from the way that CA presented Belegar but the way he is actually is much, MUCH different.

do tell me more.

Thorin is all about questing to the lonely mountain with a teeny band of dwarfs and killing the dragon there. He's a bad planner, he's greedy and he often relies on other people to get things done. Belegar on the other hand isn't about getting to Karak 8 Peaks hes about taking it. He has a huge (by dwarf standards) army that he has entrenched in K8P and is constantly fighting enormous skaven/greenskin hordes. He's also pretty much the exact opposite in how capable he is compared to Thorin.

[Shaunuthun]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

No, it might look like it from the way that CA presented Belegar but the way he is actually is much, MUCH different.

How so?

Well they have similarities for sure GW always portrayed Belegar more as a symbol of defiance and stubborness than a lost king. For most of the pre end times lore he was actually in Karak eight peaks fighting Skarsnik and Queek Headtaker (Skaven). I think its just more of a coincidence that they are both Dwarf kings who lost their hold. (Of course only the writers would know for sure.)

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

Thorin is all about questing to the lonely mountain with a teeny band of dwarfs and killing the dragon there. He's a bad planner, he's greedy and he often relies on other people to get things done. Belegar on the other hand isn't about getting to Karak 8 Peaks hes about taking it. He has a huge (by dwarf standards) army with which he constantly fights greenskins and skaven. He's also pretty much the exact opposite in how capable he is compared to Thorin.

I think Daryl means the similarities between reclaiming a lost Hold/home from an invader. They are actually quite similiar in that regard.

The Battle for Lonely Mountain has similarities with the fight over K8P too.

Well yeah, but that could go for any displaced leader. Also I wouldn't say the battle for the lonely mountain is similar to the battle of K8P.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

And I should add that Daryls post is talking about how they both are far away from their home and lead their guys to reclaim it which is just absolutely not true for Belegar. Pretty much his entire story is him being entrenched in K8P duking it out with Skarsnik and Queek with occasional reinforcements fighting their way in.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

And I should add that Daryls post is talking about how they both are far away from their home and lead their guys to reclaim it which is just absolutely not true for Belegar. Pretty much his entire story is him being entrenched in K8P duking it out with Skarsnik and Queek with occasional reinforcements fighting their way in.

Well yeah. But the whole idea has similarities with Moria and Lonely Mountain thats for sure.

Similarities, but I wouldn't say its an homage.

[StarofTanuki]

How diferent both of them ?

Belegor - 12165465612654654654565465 luck
Thorin +2135456465163165412313 luck

[Daryl]

Originally posted by SleepyNarwhalz:

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Well yeah. But the whole idea has similarities with Moria and Lonely Mountain thats for sure.

Similarities, but I wouldn't say its an homage.

I dont know... It just seems quite.. y'know.. coincidental
that also being
"Ironhammer"
and the other being "Oakenshield"
its like..
...too similar-y

[Reverend Belial]

I doubt it.

[Drakki Stoutaz]

Battle of the lonely mountain took a day, battle for karak eight peaks is raging daily since many years. Belegar is a well respected king supported by the High king of the dwarfs in his quest. Simularity of reclaiming a dwarf hold could be said about any other dwarf hold that is under an atempt to relcaim it. He wasn't harassed by his enemies on the way to karak 8p at all because no enemy could face the whole throng in open battle until he actually rechead the krown peaks and was met by a waagh. The name Ironhammer has nothing to do with Oakenshield except one thing- they are both created according to Dwarfs name standards. This theory is more longshot than stating that the war of the rings is a representation of world war one.

[Reverend Belial]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

People would be surprised at how many "similiarities" there are with the Dwarfs in Middle-Earth and the Dawi in Warhammer. Their language is pretty much a direct rip from Tollkien for one.

Along with their culture, mannerisms, and most of their aesthetic.

[Reverend Belial]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Originally posted by Reverend Belial:

Along with their culture, mannerisms, and most of their aesthetic.

Indeed. But if you read up on Moria, you could probably swap a couple things out for the Warhammer equivalent and its really not that far off the K8P story.

In my opinion Moria is more akin to Karak Vlag, who's downfall was largely caused by the accidental awakening of an ancient and powerful creature (in Vlag's case a Dragon), and is positioned next to a large still lake in which dwells tentacled horrors.

[Reverend Belial]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Originally posted by Reverend Belial:

In my opinion Moria is more akin to Karak Vlag, who's downfall was largely caused by the accidental awakening of an ancient and powerful creature (in Vlag's case a Dragon), and is positioned next to a large still lake in which dwells tentacled horrors.

True true. There's also the painfully obvious Mt. Gundabad and Mt. Gunbad, both of which have very similiar backstories.

Well GW has never really been known for its originality.