2 Orc Boys < 3 Goblin spears, so why choose orc boys?

[skyhrg]

So I experimented a custom battle of 2 orc boys vs 3 goblin spears just to test equality, because the cost and upkeep for 2 orc boys pretty much equal that of the goblins.

The goblins won. So what's the point of choosing the orc boys? I know the army size limit comes into play and so you'll want to upgrade the goblin spears into orc boys, etc.

But anyone else care to chip in? Thanks!

[gachi is manly]

You just answered your own question? If you can dedicate less forces to one part of the battlefield then you have more free units to do other stuff like flank or go after ranged.

[StarofTanuki]

I don't want my troops flee by gun sound.

[ScipioGermanicus]

Originally posted by >po|nt`|ockout<52Hz>.,~*:

I don't want my troops flee by gun sound.

answer of the year... and yes u answered ur own question. army size, morale stats. Sword is in most parts better then a spear(except against mounts etc) and a shield is better then no shield.(Or the gobbos have shields?) And 2 Units compared to 3 are easier to manage when u play urself and dont autoresolve.

[SUSHIMAKI]

Exactly, your goblins probably won because your hero survived. Without a hero to support them they flee after just a few casualties. Orc boys fare a lot better without leadership support and actually win a 1 vs 1 with most other units of similar cost. Goblins are more reserve troops.

[PrivateXTC]

Well spears own swords in real life so sounds like a good result.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Orcs won't flee instantly.

[[PHNX]Kordarus]

the armor piercing just always better than anything else. It's a fact. The way the stats work kind of break the game and make stuff like that happen.

So build your army of 20 spear goblins and see how far it get you on your next campaign...

[TVMAN]

The problem with gobbos is that they melt the moment another unit sneezes on their flank. They're good for flanking and for tying down isolated units, but they can't hold a line.

[Tenshin51]

Originally posted by PrivateXTC:

Well spears own swords in real life so sounds like a good result.

Sadly in this game swords beat spear like most game out there especially JRPG which is hilarious seriously what's up w/ those humongous sword if they want a long reach weapon better use bow and spear.
Blame the media for portraying sword as almighty weapon especially the katana.

Back to topic
It totally much depends on your economy if you can maintain the upkeep of Orc Boyz in early game. Personally i use both, goblin spear as my meatshield in single campaign they easily be replenish. Orc boyz and cavalry for flank for my campaign.

[skyhrg]

Originally posted by PHNXKordarus:

the armor piercing just always better than anything else. It's a fact. The way the stats work kind of break the game and make stuff like that happen.

So build your army of 20 spear goblins and see how far it get you on your next campaign...

Excellent responses guys! Can you explain more on the armor piercing and how it relates to Orc Boyz vs Goblins?

I am thinking for single campaign:
1. Use orc boyz as front line
2. Flank with archers
3. Use cavs to chase down enemy archers and when that's done, hammer and anvil

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[[PHNX]Kordarus]

Armor piercing mechanic is kind of weird in the current system. each unit even those with light armor still have some armor. I'm not exactly sure of the formula that apply, but armor usually mean less damage from regular attack. Each units has AP dam even those without the actual AP skill, just of lower value.

So all AP damage is direct damage that ignore completely the armor, so every hit there is actually some damage done by every soldier. The armor of a soldier reduce the basic damage received. so basically simplified it's [(basic attack - armor reduction) + Armor piercing damage]

So the way the game work the AP it almost give a total advantage on damage dealing to any unit who get AP damage/skill. In that case the goblins will deal more damage, but being a so low moral unit in a long battle they may just lose cuz they will run away at some point.

Edit: this ain't the only thing to consider, since melee defense also can help dodge damage also some other skills can help avoid damage, but that's the simplified formula taking only in account the damage from a sucessfull hit.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Originally posted by PHNXKordarus:

Armor piercing mechanic is kind of weird in the current system. each unit even those with light armor still have some armor. I'm not exactly sure of the formula that apply, but armor usually mean less damage from regular attack. Each units has AP dam even those without the actual AP skill, just of lower value.

So all AP damage is direct damage that ignore completely the armor, so every hit there is actually some damage done by every soldier. The armor of a soldier reduce the basic damage received. so basically simplified it's [(basic attack - armor reduction) + Armor piercing damage]

So the way the game work the AP it almost give a total advantage on damage dealing to any unit who get AP damage/skill. In that case the goblins will deal more damage, but being a so low moral unit in a long battle they may just lose cuz they will run away at some point.

This is a good explanation of it

[gachi is manly]

It's how a group of goblins is still able to actually hurt a 125 armor dwarf lord; despite the fact that a goblin would never even dent a kitted out dwarf lord with runes and gromril armor in tabletop.

Every unit in the game gets some armor piercing damage. If you hover over their damage stat it will show you how it's split up.

[Tenshin51]

Originally posted by Maschinengewehr:

Just use nasty skulkers. They make both of them redundant anyway.

Nasty skulkers have 40 leadership like the night goblin but have AP. They are better as flankers than meatshield. The best meatshield is still the black orcs for greenskin but expensive in early game.

[董]

Depends on terrain. If ure on a siege obviously u want orcs to ladder climb, u just be throwing away the goblins for nothing assaulting walls. Same logic in tight narrow ridges etc. Open field wise goblins the obvious choice.

I just use boar big'uns, more ounch and easier to use. Inf wise black orcs will always comes out top. Less units less mirco, easier play